I should totally be, you know...sleeping. So I will do my best to be coherent before I swan off for the night. :)
What about Churchill? FDR? Joan of Arc? I
I actually almost included Joan of Arc in my list before I decided it wasn't fair to include someone who didn't really have that much power and was basically a convenient pawn. The power element is the important one here--if it weren't for that, this episode wouldn't exist. But there's a good reason why I didn't put Churchill or FDR on the list, and it's because neither of them were batshit fucking crazy. They had to believe in themselves, yes, but Churchill didn't gas people. FDR didn't try to take over the world. And they both surrounded themselves with exceptionally smart people who, I'll wager, were expected to differ with them whenever the occasion arose, because the potential cost of an incorrect move was unthinkable. They're not in the same category at all. I see Sheridan and Delenn as much more Churchill/FDR than Napoleon/Hitler/Stalin/etc. If it were left to them, I don't think either would choose to fight this war (assuming it were optional), but it's fight or die, and nobody else is going to do it (nobody else will even admit the Shadows exist when they get started) so they damn well better step up.
these two are in NO POSITION to give themselves up without a DAMN good reason. Otherwise, the whole alliance falls apart, as we see at the beginning of S4 when the League races are running scared because Sheridan's supposedly dead.
But we don't know that yet in S2 because there is no alliance yet. And even if there were, wouldn't that kinda make them all that and a bag of chips after all? I don't think, by the way, that Sebastian (or Kosh/the Vorlons) are actually saying, "You're going to have to sacrifice yourself. Get used to the idea." I think they're asking exactly how dedicated you are. Your garden variety defense enthusiast is gonna say, "No way, are you nuts? I know this nice little deserted planet that's looking good right about now," but the ones who really get how important something is will be willing to go the whole way if that's what's necessary. That's what's happening here.
As for the egotism...I am going to venture to guess that most B5 fans don't see those characters as raging egomaniacs just because how the hell would you ever get yourself to watch the show if you did? I don't. I see Delenn as the one who knows that something deadly and evil is coming back and thus has been sent by her people--who do get it but know that even they are no match for this creatures--to convince others that something must be done before it's too late. If you're the only one who truly understands something like that and your attempts encounter skepticism (which they do from almost everyone but the B5 crew, at first), you're going to get frustrated, and your efforts will ratchet up until you risk becoming a parody of yourself. Every scene where she explains this stuff to someone comes across to me as someone who knows that she has a sacred duty to bring some sort of force together or her skin, and everyone else's, is literally on the line. And I think it's also possible that she suspects they're all doomed if that prophecy doesn't come to pass, though I've never really seen her as all that focused on prophecy either--I mean, yes, she knows it, believes it, and certainly passes it on to others, but it's not like she's obsessed with it--again, it would make her an unwatchable character. To me, it's an element of her religious caste background, but it's not the whole character. I see her more as the one who wants to do the right thing because it's right than the one who's manipulating everyone because a fortune teller told her to. (Again, I last watched a year ago, so I could be a little fuzzy, but that's always been my overall impression of her.)
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2010-09-09 02:11 am (UTC)What about Churchill? FDR? Joan of Arc? I
I actually almost included Joan of Arc in my list before I decided it wasn't fair to include someone who didn't really have that much power and was basically a convenient pawn. The power element is the important one here--if it weren't for that, this episode wouldn't exist. But there's a good reason why I didn't put Churchill or FDR on the list, and it's because neither of them were batshit fucking crazy. They had to believe in themselves, yes, but Churchill didn't gas people. FDR didn't try to take over the world. And they both surrounded themselves with exceptionally smart people who, I'll wager, were expected to differ with them whenever the occasion arose, because the potential cost of an incorrect move was unthinkable. They're not in the same category at all. I see Sheridan and Delenn as much more Churchill/FDR than Napoleon/Hitler/Stalin/etc. If it were left to them, I don't think either would choose to fight this war (assuming it were optional), but it's fight or die, and nobody else is going to do it (nobody else will even admit the Shadows exist when they get started) so they damn well better step up.
these two are in NO POSITION to give themselves up without a DAMN good reason. Otherwise, the whole alliance falls apart, as we see at the beginning of S4 when the League races are running scared because Sheridan's supposedly dead.
But we don't know that yet in S2 because there is no alliance yet. And even if there were, wouldn't that kinda make them all that and a bag of chips after all? I don't think, by the way, that Sebastian (or Kosh/the Vorlons) are actually saying, "You're going to have to sacrifice yourself. Get used to the idea." I think they're asking exactly how dedicated you are. Your garden variety defense enthusiast is gonna say, "No way, are you nuts? I know this nice little deserted planet that's looking good right about now," but the ones who really get how important something is will be willing to go the whole way if that's what's necessary. That's what's happening here.
As for the egotism...I am going to venture to guess that most B5 fans don't see those characters as raging egomaniacs just because how the hell would you ever get yourself to watch the show if you did? I don't. I see Delenn as the one who knows that something deadly and evil is coming back and thus has been sent by her people--who do get it but know that even they are no match for this creatures--to convince others that something must be done before it's too late. If you're the only one who truly understands something like that and your attempts encounter skepticism (which they do from almost everyone but the B5 crew, at first), you're going to get frustrated, and your efforts will ratchet up until you risk becoming a parody of yourself. Every scene where she explains this stuff to someone comes across to me as someone who knows that she has a sacred duty to bring some sort of force together or her skin, and everyone else's, is literally on the line. And I think it's also possible that she suspects they're all doomed if that prophecy doesn't come to pass, though I've never really seen her as all that focused on prophecy either--I mean, yes, she knows it, believes it, and certainly passes it on to others, but it's not like she's obsessed with it--again, it would make her an unwatchable character. To me, it's an element of her religious caste background, but it's not the whole character. I see her more as the one who wants to do the right thing because it's right than the one who's manipulating everyone because a fortune teller told her to. (Again, I last watched a year ago, so I could be a little fuzzy, but that's always been my overall impression of her.)