Poll!

[icepixie]

ETA: Let's see if this works right this time...

This is just something I've been thinking about lately. Also, I've never done a poll before. Fanfic applies to both questions if you want it to.

[Poll #525641]

Please elaborate in comments if you want. I'm interested in anything you have to say relating to these questions.

For me, about four out of five times, my first inking of a piece of writing will come in the form of a location to set it. I usually tend to draw these locations from real life. Whether they're from RL or purely imaginative, I know everything about how it feels to be in that place, from the exact location on a map to the air temperature to the background sounds and smells. Not all of this information makes it into the description of the place, but it helps me form the action that happens and the characters that would be found there. The other times are divided between a character--including fanfic explorations of characters seen on TV--and a "hey, wouldn't it be cool if" kind of plot. But mostly it's location: I'll think, I want to write a scene that takes place at a fireworks store, in a cornfield, on the front porch of a 1920s bungalow near a speedway on a summer night, on a snowy day in Atlantis, whatever. Everything else just falls into place after that. Of course, this tends to lead to fragmentary writing; once that scene is over, what do I do? Ideas where the character or plot come first aren't as rich in detail, but they seem to carry me through longer stretches of writing and larger goals.

Similarly, I enjoy pieces that make good use of descriptive language to really pull the reader into a scene. Thomas Hardy, my perennial favorite Victorian soap opera novelist, is a great example of this. In fact, when we were reading some Hardy stories in the Kenyon Seminar this semester, we had a brief discussion about descriptive language in novels. Matz suggested that some people "do the work" of imagining everything that is described as far as location, objects, etc., while others just skim to get to the action. I was somewhat astonished that anyone could not see everything as it was described. It's not a conscious decision for me; when I read, my mind pretty much translates it into a movie in my head. I take the description of the setting, realize it it full color, add any details that are lacking to make it cohesive, and then the action just takes place there like it would on a TV screen. After a while, I can't tell you the words I just read; I can tell you what the scene looks like in my mind, with my own words, but I probably couldn't repeat any of the sentences used by the original author. Maybe this comes from watching too much television as a small child, but I think even if I had no idea what movies or TV were, I'd still do this. Maybe not as well, but I think that's still how I would read.

Comments

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

Hmm, had a comment all typed out, and then you edited the entry and LJ blew up. Let's try again.

Hey, this isn't what you asked at all, and extremely tangential, but can you see moving pictures in your mind when you imagine a scene? Like, really moving pictures, like 24 frames per second videos. Because I just realized this past year that I can't, and I was wondering what other people see.

Sorry about the randomness. To answer the question you asked, I usually get inspired by plot first, or at least a snippet of action, despite my severe anti-plot writing tendencies. Of course, I'm horrible at coming up with initial ideas, and it doesn't happen by itself very often, so I'm not drawing on a huge pool of writing experience here. Setting can also work for me occasionally, but not to the crazy extremes you seem to take it to. : )

When I'm reading, the writing style outweighs every other aspect. I don't care what's happening to whom, if it's written in a way that's annoying, or hard to follow, or just distracting from the story, I tend to want to throw the book across the room. Yes, I'm talking to *you*, Woolfe, please go die now.

Did any of that help? Sorry.

[icepixie]

Hmm, had a comment all typed out, and then you edited the entry and LJ blew up. Let's try again.

Ooops. Sorry.

can you see moving pictures in your mind when you imagine a scene? Like, really moving pictures, like 24 frames per second videos.

Yes, that's exactly what I see. And I hear the dialogue being spoken, too (or crickets chirping, car horns, etc.). Very occasionally, I also get touch-o-vision or smell-o-vision, but that's rare. It's gotten to the point where I see camera angles and movement. To take a completely random example pulled out of my bookcase...from a story in an anthology called "Dragon Fantastic": "Its body glowed a rich mahogany red, while the crest of spikes that ran the length of its neck and back were copper-colored in the sunlight." When I read that, the word "ran" translates into me (or the camera in my mind) actually panning down the dragon's back along the row of spikes.

Because I just realized this past year that I can't, and I was wondering what other people see.

Really? Wow. What do you see, then--words? Just vague still images?

I usually get inspired by plot first, or at least a snippet of action, despite my severe anti-plot writing tendencies.

Bwah! I'd never have expected that.

Of course, I'm horrible at coming up with initial ideas, and it doesn't happen by itself very often, so I'm not drawing on a huge pool of writing experience here.

Well, yeah, join the club. That reminds me, I should write some samples for Advanced Fiction while I have time...

Setting can also work for me occasionally, but not to the crazy extremes you seem to take it to. : )

Dude, I cannot go for a fifteen-minute car ride without seeing about six different places I'd like to set a story. It's kind of ridiculous.

When I'm reading, the writing style outweighs every other aspect. I don't care what's happening to whom, if it's written in a way that's annoying, or hard to follow, or just distracting from the story, I tend to want to throw the book across the room.

Hear hear!

Yes, I'm talking to *you*, Woolfe, please go die now.

Oh, has somebody started Mrs. Dalloway?

[alorarose.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's exactly what I see. And I hear the dialogue being spoken, too (or crickets chirping, car horns, etc.). Very occasionally, I also get touch-o-vision or smell-o-vision, but that's rare. It's gotten to the point where I see camera angles and movement. To take a completely random example pulled out of my bookcase...from a story in an anthology called "Dragon Fantastic": "Its body glowed a rich mahogany red, while the crest of spikes that ran the length of its neck and back were copper-colored in the sunlight." When I read that, the word "ran" translates into me (or the camera in my mind) actually panning down the dragon's back along the row of spikes.

My brain works EXACTLY the same way. I had a similar conversation with Cristin who isn't visual at all when reading stories and it kinda boggled me. Sometimes it's hard for me to get through a book because the mental images are just...soooo...baaaaad. But, othertimes it makes the reading experience so much fun! well, expept when they go and make books into movies and their interpretation of what the characters look like and sound like are COMPLETELY different then inside your brain.

[icepixie]

Sometimes it's hard for me to get through a book because the mental images are just...soooo...baaaaad.

Yes. Very yes. Or when the author uses some phrase you know he/she thinks sounds great, but which describes some kind of movement that goes agains the laws of physics or something...argh.

[gamesiplay.livejournal.com]

Wow. It's fascinating to me that you see what you're reading or writing. I never have, and it actually didn't occur to me for years that anyone did.

Really? Wow. What do you see, then--words? Just vague still images?

For my part, I don't see anything at all. (To be fair, I happen to be one of the most non-visual people I know, so this may not be the normal experience.) Sometimes when a book works especially well for me, I can get... a sort of spatial sense. I don't know how to describe it. An idea of motion, maybe.

[gamesiplay.livejournal.com]

Also, regarding my answers on the poll: I answered Other on the first question for the reason I was trying to articulate above. I guess what I get first is closest to setting, but really it's just a feeling, usually based on a phrase--oddly enough, it's often a phrase describing something visual, but not something I actually see. For example, one story I was planning last year was stuck until I got an idea of this scene in a country lane, late autumn, and the phrase "the leaves curling like flame around them."

As for my second answer, it's usually some combination of style and character, although in general style is most important to me.

[icepixie]

I know what you mean about a phrase launching something, although for my part I usually do see/feel/hear what it is the phrase is describing. Usually that's what gets a poem going for me; for stories, it's more of a feel of a place, like you say above.

I was having trouble deciding between style and character, too; usually a really interesting bit of language will draw me in, but I need to connect in some way to the characters to keep reading beyond the first thirty pages or so.

[icepixie]

An idea of motion, maybe.

Like if you were reading about a roller coaster ride, you might get the impression of being on one?

Are you more of an audio person? Do you hear the words being repeated in your head, maybe? Sometimes if a passage really isn't working for me, I'll have that...my mental voice reciting the words, but no imaginative comprehension.

[gamesiplay.livejournal.com]

Sort of like that, yeah. I'll get the feeling of being on a roller coaster ("feeling" in the emotional sense more than physical, though).

Definitely more of an auditory reader here. I tend to hear what I'm reading a lot, and then remember it down the line even when I don't realize I've memorized it. It probably makes me a better reader than writer.

[icepixie]

Do you have words you like because of their sounds? I know some people are really into that, but I've never quite gotten on that bandwagon.

If I want to memorize something, I almost always have to write it down. That's the only thing that got me through monologues in drama class in high school.

[gamesiplay.livejournal.com]

A little, but I don't have a mental list that I could give you off the top of my head. I don't really have favorite words to the degree that a lot of people have.

It's funny, because in terms of all those learning-style tests they give you (or at least they gave us) in elementary school, I am not at all an auditory learner--it's supposed to be my unconscious learning style. But I figure that's why sometimes music or poetry really gets under my skin and sticks; it gets embedded in the unconscious or something.

[icepixie]

I never got any learning-style tests as a kid. ;) I've taken a couple online ones, and they always peg me as a musical learner. Ooookay.

I am not at all an auditory learner--it's supposed to be my unconscious learning style.

Hmmm. Maybe reading and writing are closer to the unconscious than we (or I) intuitively suspect. There's that thing where you can come up with a better take on an essay if you sleep on it...

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

"Its body glowed a rich mahogany red, while the crest of spikes that ran the length of its neck and back were copper-colored in the sunlight."

Dude. Wanna hear something creepy? As I read that sentence, before I read your take on it, my mental camera panned down the dragon's back too. Except my mental camera is ghetto-fabulous, and it's more stop-motion than actual film. I can see still visual stuff pretty clearly in my mind, and I can link together a series of still images to form jerky animation, but I can't visualize fluid movement at all. If I focus really hard, I can almost see smooth motion, but then the rest of the detail of the picture dies. Except.. I can always tell the motion's there. Like it's the foreign-dubbed audio track on a DVD. It's there, and it corresponds exactly to the rest of the movie (well, in terms of soundtrack timing, if not lip movement), but it's saved in a seperate file. I know the quality of the motion, and I can tell you exactly what the motion is doing, but I can't see it. I can.. feel it? Anyway, I think my brain is busted.

I'd never have expected that.

Yeah, me neither.

That reminds me, I should write some samples for Advanced Fiction while I have time...

Yessss... I think I'm gonna go for non-fic, since I've had so much practice this year...

Dude, I cannot go for a fifteen-minute car ride without seeing about six different places I'd like to set a story.

Weirdo.

Hear hear!

Speaking of completely the opposite, you should read Ben Rice's _Pobby and Dingan_ for Jesse's book report. It's a great little book you can read in an hour.

Oh, has somebody started Mrs. Dalloway?

No, just buying that stupid book today makes me so angry I can't even spell the woman's name right anymore.

[icepixie]

Dude. Wanna hear something creepy? As I read that sentence, before I read your take on it, my mental camera panned down the dragon's back too.

That is pretty creepy.

Except my mental camera is ghetto-fabulous, and it's more stop-motion than actual film. I can see still visual stuff pretty clearly in my mind, and I can link together a series of still images to form jerky animation, but I can't visualize fluid movement at all. If I focus really hard, I can almost see smooth motion, but then the rest of the detail of the picture dies. Except.. I can always tell the motion's there. Like it's the foreign-dubbed audio track on a DVD. It's there, and it corresponds exactly to the rest of the movie (well, in terms of soundtrack timing, if not lip movement), but it's saved in a seperate file. I know the quality of the motion, and I can tell you exactly what the motion is doing, but I can't see it. I can.. feel it?

Where would we be without the words of modern technology to describe these things? *g* I think I've occasionally gotten the stop-motion animation sensation, although I couldn't name you any specific examples. (I haven't eaten in a while due to impending blood tests at the doctor's, so my brain's not working quite right this morning.) Is there anything that's more vivid about the experience than the vision for you, then?

Anyway, I think my brain is busted.

England broke your brain!

Yessss... I think I'm gonna go for non-fic, since I've had so much practice this year...

Heh.

Weirdo.

I know.

Speaking of completely the opposite, you should read Ben Rice's _Pobby and Dingan_ for Jesse's book report. It's a great little book you can read in an hour.

Hmmm. That sounds...interesting. If I hadn't already read Object Lessons, I'd go out and buy that book.

No, just buying that stupid book today makes me so angry I can't even spell the woman's name right anymore.

*snerk* My copy came from Amazon Marketplace a couple days ago. I hid it in the bottom of my bookcase and intend to forget about it. Urg.

Elf's 2 pence

[elflore.livejournal.com]

As a writer, I usually get some bit of plot first. If there's a character in the initial idea, then it's "wouldn't it be cool if someone like THIS did something like THIS?" This might be partly because I tend to write stories with some kind of science-fiction or fantasy or comic book element...I like there to be something in there larger than life, at least by a little.

(Joss Whedon said it about right on one of the Angel DVDs, saying he was interested in writing musicals and science fiction and vampires and superheroes and everything that doesn't happen in real life, so he can use it to talk about PEOPLE and everything that actually does happen. Of course he worded it much better than that, only I'm too lazy to surf the internet for the exact quite right now.)

As a reader, I certainly need stories to work on multiple levels. I need characters I care about and interesting things happening to them, a good thematic level helps, and the prose needs to be at least at a certain level to hold my interest. There are authors out there who write prose so clunky I just can't stand to read them...I have a physical reaction, like hearing nails on a chalkboard. (Apologies to the many fans of R.A. Salvatore.)

And I also, both writing and reading, see very clear movies in my head, with sound. It's why I find writing dialogue (and scripts) so much quicker than writing prose. I love prose, but it takes me some time to work out just the right words to achieve the effect I need. Dialogue...I tend to just hear the characters talking in my head (yes, I hear the voices!) and transcribe. Sometimes I have to go back and edit and polish them a bit later, but even that comes a bit more smoothly than shiny prose.

John (Elf), somewhere in the universe...

Re: Elf's 2 pence

[icepixie]

I usually get some bit of plot first.

Plot seems to be winning in the poll. I'm not surprised, really.

There are authors out there who write prose so clunky I just can't stand to read them...I have a physical reaction, like hearing nails on a chalkboard.

Oy. Yes, yes, yes.

I do the same thing with hearing dialogue in my head. A lot of things I write seem to start out in script form, but switch to prose a little ways in. I think it's because I'm just a control freak at heart, and I want to describe everything about a scene and not leave it up to directors, actors, etc. *g*

Re: Elf's 2 pence

[elflore.livejournal.com]

I think all writers are a bit of a control freak at heart. (Or, to quote the Joss again, this time from a Firefly commentary track... "I'm not a control freak. I am a control *enthusiast*.") That's one of those little pitfalls I tend to find when I'm scripting. Early drafts have far more direction for the actors than I need, and so I go back and cut a lot of that out, giving them room to maneuver. They'll only cross out my controls anyway, probably. But it works out--my scripts often end up overlong at first anyway!

I have to say, though, after having put on four Scapespeare plays...there are definite benefits to relinquishing control. Some of my favorite moments in my plays have come from letting the cast put their own spin on things and go crazy. Minor characters steal the show, props take on whole new significances...it's a beautiful thing!

John (Elflore), somewhere in the universe...

Re: Elf's 2 pence

[icepixie]

"I'm not a control freak. I am a control *enthusiast*.

I think I need to steal that line.

[rensong.livejournal.com]

I usually get snipits of conversation between two characters when fic ideas thwap me over the head, and then I try and build the story from there. Wasn't sure if that fit into 'plot' or 'characters', so I went with 'other'.