Doomsday post part 2
Jul. 8th, 2006 08:24 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
icepixieMore in-depth commentary on "Doomsday."
Fair warning: Lots of capslock. Lots of anger. If you liked this episode and don't want your high spoiled, back away now.
*
So...Parting of the Ways, Part 2, Cyber-Dalek Boogaloo?
Yeah. The more I think about it, the more not so much with the impressed I am.
- Okay, one of the Daleks--I think it was "Kahn" (OMG)--sounded like freaking Fozzie Bear. Seriously. I was giggling.
- Aw, I knew Daleks were the superior villain! Heh, and they traded insults with the Cybermen. Only on a British show, man.
- "I'll think of something!" Doctor, you sound a bit desperate...
- "You're gonna listen for once." Ooooh, I liked that. You tell 'im, Pete.
- Okay, the "Time Lord" ark was a surprise. Unlike many things this year. But hey, hands up all of those who were secretly hoping that, say, Romana was in there? Or some other Time Lord? Since the Daleks intimated that they didn't know what it was (although of course they were lying).
- ...But I like Harriet. Grrr.
- Um. Doctor. Newsflash: AU!Pete and Our!Jackie? RECIPE FOR DISASTER. That is NOT how healthy relationships work. JACKIE DOES NOT NEED TO BE PREGNANT, OH MY GOD. They are not the same people they each married, and trying to say that basically they are? NOT COOL. I'm not sure if I hated this bit or Rose's "end" more. See below.
- I think actually what bothered me the most about their "reunion" was that it caused an episode that had until then been rollicking along to come to a GRINDING. CRASHING. HALT. about halfway through. Lord. Way to not integrate your emotional beats at all, RTD. Usually you're pretty good at that, too.
- So Rose does remember POTW! Er, how, exactly? Although I should think she would, seeing as this was BASICALLY A REPLICA OF IT.
- "Fall of Arcadia"? FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, GIVE US MORE INFO ABOUT THE TIME WAR. NOW, DAMN YOU.
- Oh, look. Another bunch of Daleks flying about in formation. Where have I seen this before?
- Aw, together forever! She'll never leave him! "And every planet out there, he does it alone!" Rose, did you learn nothing from Sarah Jane? Arrrrgh. Way to completely ignore all past companions!
- Is it wrong that I laughed out loud when the Doctor put the chest-thing over her head and sent her to the alternate universe?
- Also laughing at the One Emo Cyber-Tear from Yvonne. Dude. Cheesy.
- Oh, look, a Dalek escaped the void. I wonder who's going to show up next season finale?
- Oh, the emo! Oh, the tears! Oh, the mascara running down Billie's cheeks!
- My goodness, this reminds me of POTW, what with Rose banging her hands and crying against a door/wall and wailing to be taken back. Possibly because the key emotional moment is EXACTLY THE SAME.
- Okay, the weird not-quite-pop-not-quite-muzak music? Not a good idea. That might have been an emotional few minutes there, but the music ruined it. Possibly that was what I most hated about this episode.
- Rose? He's Not. Your. Dad. Did we not go through all of this in ROTC/AOS? Didn't we? How convenient that we can let it fall away when we need you to be separated for good from the Doctor.
- Oh, look, another hologram. Although at least they can interact, sort of.
- "Bad Wolf Bay"? That's it for the build up they pointed at in T&C?
- Billie goes for the BAFTA!
- The "I love you"? Doing pretty much nothing for me. Sorry.
- Oh, look, I'm crying a single emo tear, just for you, Rose.
- Actually, no. She got SCREWED. It is sad. She gets to be safe and taken care of BY HER DADDY, good for her! WAY TO IGNORE ALL THE GROWTH SHE'S HAD. Yeah, she's going to work for Torchwood. What-the-fuck-ever. When she said she was working in a shop again? I didn't disbelieve her for a moment, because with how she's been regressing this season, THAT WAS TOTALLY BELIEVABLE.
Okay, I'm pissed off now. Yeah, I've been liking Rose less and less this season, but she deserved better.
All right, it's good that the Doctor didn't send her off, and I realize that it was pretty much either Pete grabs her or she dies in the void, and it's nice that she's not dead. But COME ON! It would've been better had she been given the choice, you know? How much better would it have been had RTD given her the opportunity, the power to say, "I'm needed here, not with you, Doctor"? Of course, they'd set up the whole "I'll be with you FOREVER because we have the TWU WUV!" thing, but so what? It's not like they didn't forget everything about the AU being an AU, no touchie, so why not ignore that when it suits them?
ARRRGGGHHHH.
And then the ending, with the bride (apparently the actress is well-known and well-hated in Britain?) and...WTF? In poor taste, I think. Of course, so was much of the episode. Bah.
Okay, I'm done being bitter now. Rage has reduced from boil to simmer, and will eventually cool completely. *shrug*
ETA: I read through this again, and I want to clarify it (if for nothing else than posterity). Had this been real life, I'd be very pleased that Pete pulled Rose out of the way of certain death (or certain voidyness). But it's a TV show, and as such it has license--perhaps even something approaching a mandate--to be more thematically put-together than RL does. So Rose made her choice: stay with the Doctor, come hell or high water or getting sucked into a vortex. Either let her face the consequences of that decision--let her die--or don't put her in it at all. Make it necessary for her to seal the breach and end up in the AU; let her sacrifice mean something, rather than having it negated when Pete pulls her out of harm's way. Rose doesn't get to act; she has things happen to her. She's tossed around like a football; she's objectified. (You know I'm angry when I trot out the English major buzzwords.) This is not the same girl who expounded about how the Doctor makes you a better person in POTW. This is her opposite, one who has things happen to her because she's not bright enough to do things on her own. If last season was about Rose growing up, this moment--many moments this season, but mostly this one--is about her being put back in her place, a child who can't think for herself. And it's not the way the Rose I thought I was seeing onscreen should have gone out.
Fair warning: Lots of capslock. Lots of anger. If you liked this episode and don't want your high spoiled, back away now.
*
So...Parting of the Ways, Part 2, Cyber-Dalek Boogaloo?
Yeah. The more I think about it, the more not so much with the impressed I am.
- Okay, one of the Daleks--I think it was "Kahn" (OMG)--sounded like freaking Fozzie Bear. Seriously. I was giggling.
- Aw, I knew Daleks were the superior villain! Heh, and they traded insults with the Cybermen. Only on a British show, man.
- "I'll think of something!" Doctor, you sound a bit desperate...
- "You're gonna listen for once." Ooooh, I liked that. You tell 'im, Pete.
- Okay, the "Time Lord" ark was a surprise. Unlike many things this year. But hey, hands up all of those who were secretly hoping that, say, Romana was in there? Or some other Time Lord? Since the Daleks intimated that they didn't know what it was (although of course they were lying).
- ...But I like Harriet. Grrr.
- Um. Doctor. Newsflash: AU!Pete and Our!Jackie? RECIPE FOR DISASTER. That is NOT how healthy relationships work. JACKIE DOES NOT NEED TO BE PREGNANT, OH MY GOD. They are not the same people they each married, and trying to say that basically they are? NOT COOL. I'm not sure if I hated this bit or Rose's "end" more. See below.
- I think actually what bothered me the most about their "reunion" was that it caused an episode that had until then been rollicking along to come to a GRINDING. CRASHING. HALT. about halfway through. Lord. Way to not integrate your emotional beats at all, RTD. Usually you're pretty good at that, too.
- So Rose does remember POTW! Er, how, exactly? Although I should think she would, seeing as this was BASICALLY A REPLICA OF IT.
- "Fall of Arcadia"? FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, GIVE US MORE INFO ABOUT THE TIME WAR. NOW, DAMN YOU.
- Oh, look. Another bunch of Daleks flying about in formation. Where have I seen this before?
- Aw, together forever! She'll never leave him! "And every planet out there, he does it alone!" Rose, did you learn nothing from Sarah Jane? Arrrrgh. Way to completely ignore all past companions!
- Is it wrong that I laughed out loud when the Doctor put the chest-thing over her head and sent her to the alternate universe?
- Also laughing at the One Emo Cyber-Tear from Yvonne. Dude. Cheesy.
- Oh, look, a Dalek escaped the void. I wonder who's going to show up next season finale?
- Oh, the emo! Oh, the tears! Oh, the mascara running down Billie's cheeks!
- My goodness, this reminds me of POTW, what with Rose banging her hands and crying against a door/wall and wailing to be taken back. Possibly because the key emotional moment is EXACTLY THE SAME.
- Okay, the weird not-quite-pop-not-quite-muzak music? Not a good idea. That might have been an emotional few minutes there, but the music ruined it. Possibly that was what I most hated about this episode.
- Rose? He's Not. Your. Dad. Did we not go through all of this in ROTC/AOS? Didn't we? How convenient that we can let it fall away when we need you to be separated for good from the Doctor.
- Oh, look, another hologram. Although at least they can interact, sort of.
- "Bad Wolf Bay"? That's it for the build up they pointed at in T&C?
- Billie goes for the BAFTA!
- The "I love you"? Doing pretty much nothing for me. Sorry.
- Oh, look, I'm crying a single emo tear, just for you, Rose.
- Actually, no. She got SCREWED. It is sad. She gets to be safe and taken care of BY HER DADDY, good for her! WAY TO IGNORE ALL THE GROWTH SHE'S HAD. Yeah, she's going to work for Torchwood. What-the-fuck-ever. When she said she was working in a shop again? I didn't disbelieve her for a moment, because with how she's been regressing this season, THAT WAS TOTALLY BELIEVABLE.
Okay, I'm pissed off now. Yeah, I've been liking Rose less and less this season, but she deserved better.
All right, it's good that the Doctor didn't send her off, and I realize that it was pretty much either Pete grabs her or she dies in the void, and it's nice that she's not dead. But COME ON! It would've been better had she been given the choice, you know? How much better would it have been had RTD given her the opportunity, the power to say, "I'm needed here, not with you, Doctor"? Of course, they'd set up the whole "I'll be with you FOREVER because we have the TWU WUV!" thing, but so what? It's not like they didn't forget everything about the AU being an AU, no touchie, so why not ignore that when it suits them?
ARRRGGGHHHH.
And then the ending, with the bride (apparently the actress is well-known and well-hated in Britain?) and...WTF? In poor taste, I think. Of course, so was much of the episode. Bah.
Okay, I'm done being bitter now. Rage has reduced from boil to simmer, and will eventually cool completely. *shrug*
ETA: I read through this again, and I want to clarify it (if for nothing else than posterity). Had this been real life, I'd be very pleased that Pete pulled Rose out of the way of certain death (or certain voidyness). But it's a TV show, and as such it has license--perhaps even something approaching a mandate--to be more thematically put-together than RL does. So Rose made her choice: stay with the Doctor, come hell or high water or getting sucked into a vortex. Either let her face the consequences of that decision--let her die--or don't put her in it at all. Make it necessary for her to seal the breach and end up in the AU; let her sacrifice mean something, rather than having it negated when Pete pulls her out of harm's way. Rose doesn't get to act; she has things happen to her. She's tossed around like a football; she's objectified. (You know I'm angry when I trot out the English major buzzwords.) This is not the same girl who expounded about how the Doctor makes you a better person in POTW. This is her opposite, one who has things happen to her because she's not bright enough to do things on her own. If last season was about Rose growing up, this moment--many moments this season, but mostly this one--is about her being put back in her place, a child who can't think for herself. And it's not the way the Rose I thought I was seeing onscreen should have gone out.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-09 07:03 pm (UTC)Heh. Not surprising. ;)
I think the fact that this is a family/kid's show is key here. Rose makes her sacrifice to save the world, but in the world of this show there IS a magic which often saves you at the last moment.
Whereas my view of the "magic" is "Even when you've reached adulthood, you're still going to get into trouble that only your parents can save you from. You're not self-sufficient. Let other people make decisions for you; you can't know what you want/need." Which I think is a bit of a crap message for a kids show. Also, Pete saving her rankled because I saw it as a realization of Rusty's stubborn refusal to let consequences touch his personal Mary Sue. Rose decides to stay with the Doctor forever or stay with him and die trying to save the Earth, but when that last one threatens--whoop! Can't have that! Gotta pull her out of there!
she's the sort of bird (errr, no Brit-pun intended there, sorry!) that has to be pushed from the nest before she can fly.
And to me, this was saying, "Yes, she CAN'T fly! No leaving the nest for her!" I think if we'd seen her working for Torchwood and making something out of her life, rather than just being told, in one little bit of dialogue, that she was going to work for them, I would've liked it so much more. But our last image of Rose is her crying her heart out on a beach, back with the people she'd frankly been trying to leave for two years (visiting is good, but I think it was obvious that she didn't want to live with Jackie and Mickey anymore) mourning her relationship with the Doctor. I get no hope, no sense that she's been changed by her time with the Doctor, from that image.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-09 07:37 pm (UTC)Seeing Rose fly: I went and rewatched that ending bit today...partly to check out the music you found so offensive. *snerk* (I can see where strings or a solo voice might've been gorgeous, but what was there worked for me still. I liked the 'new agey' voice being a spin on the ooh-y Doctor theme they've been using since 'Rose', which I still love. And the slightly goofy synth beat offered an inexorable momentum to those scenes, the feeling that even as Rose mourned her life had moved on whether she wanted it to or not.) And the ending still made me bawl, especially the beach. And looking at that scene...while I still would have loved seeing Rose kicking ass with Torchwood, I see the way RTD approached the scene. Even though Rose was telling the tale, it was almost from the Doctor's point of view. We find out what Rose has been up to as he does. (And David Tennant is *so* brilliant there, just the feelings written on his face.) And the emotional beat there was the pain of goodbye, of being forced to let go. Could you have shown a changed Rose, how she's grown since she left the Doctor, a more upbeat epilogue? Sure. But RTD wanted to go with the tragedy and the pain of goodbye, the same pain a lot of the viewers are feelings. And I try to always review a piece based on the story they're telling, not the story I'd tell with their setup...so for the tragedy they set up, I thought it was nicely done. And I loved, loved, loved watching the Doctor miss out on speaking the words, and the tears on his face. I don't think we can be reminded too often that time runs out and we need to let people know we care while we can.
Where will Rose go from here? I think that's still very much an open question. And it might not be a story RTD chooses to tell. Or maybe it will, maybe he'll surprise us, here or on Torchwood. (There are quite a few rumours floating about now, about RTD and/or the Beeb maybe saying something about a season 3 appearance.) I think I'd love to see her on Torchwood most...no Doctor, just Rose somehow contacting or teaming up with Jack between worlds and kicking butt. I also think what role Mickey will play in her life is extremely open ended. He's living with them because he's family, but whether he and Rose end up together is anybody's guess.
So yeah...I just choose to focus on believing that Rose WILL grow up, even if it takes her time. And in a way, I think that's a far truer departure than many of the companions have gotten, falling in love and leaving the TARDIS in the course of one story. Like Sarah Jane showed us...you don't get over traveling with the Doctor easily or quickly.
Hmmm...now that I think about it, what happened with Rose almost reminds me a little of how Susan was forced out of the TARDIS in 'The Dalek Invasion of Earth'...which was a fantastic scene...
no subject
Date: 2006-07-10 05:20 pm (UTC)I'm still unable to get over how creepy the whole substitute-Pete thing is. The beach scene was, what, three months after everything else went down? And yet Jackie's pregnant and they seem to be a big happy family? THIS CREEPS ME OUT. Because they are not the same people the other married, and "our" Jackie and Pete were headed toward divorce anyway, and OMG, I'm squicked. It's like fanfic written by a thirteen-year-old.
"Slightly goofy synth beat": Made me want to smash things.
And I try to always review a piece based on the story they're telling, not the story I'd tell with their setup
On the one hand, this makes sense. On the other hand, there's a line between that and "this conclusion does not follow logically/believably from the existing set-up," and this goes way over that line for me. They set up Rose to learn from the Doctor, to have this heroic choice, she makes it, it looks like she might pay for it...and then Pete saves her? Eh? To paraphrase
It also bothers me that we get to see the Doctor moving on (the bride), but we see Rose looking quite stuck on that beach. Had we even had the tearful goodbye in, like, Rose's office at Torchwood, I would've been more okay with it, because we get some indication that Rose is not going to be completely broken by their parting.
Like Sarah Jane showed us...you don't get over traveling with the Doctor easily or quickly.
You don't, but at the same time, there are ways to show this without implying that a character will not ever get over it.
I'm agreeing with a lot of Nos's recent posts on this episode. It just...God, it makes me angry.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-10 05:58 pm (UTC)Probably should be said though: I'm not trying to convince you of anything here, or expecting that I could. Mostly trying to explain myself...and defend any image I might have in your mind as a guy with half a brain! *snerk*
Pete and Jackie: Is it ridiculous and unrealistic? Sure. But we're talking about a show where people travel throughout time and space. I can buy some romanticism now and then. Heck, it's me...I can buy a lot of romanticism. But I actually think...part of it also depends on your take on psychology. How much of our personality is inborn, and how much is experience? If it's mostly inborn, then Pete and Jackie might not be so different between worlds. And the way I see it...love is ALWAYS rather irrational in some respect, but these two people have a lot of reason to work for it. So I'm hopeful about 'em.
Synth Beat: Whoops. Sorry. Me not wanna make Becca smash!
The Doctor moving on: Can't say I'd call the bride scene the Doctor moving on...he just got a WTF moment. My guess is the Doctor's gonna be mopy-angst for an episode or two...and then we do know he'll move on, 'cause he always does, and the show wouldn get hold if it clung to the angst too long. But I don't think RTD is gonna forget that emotional weight he's built up.
Rose's arc: Obviously I still think Rose is gonna move on...I will believe in the best for a character until shown otherwise. (At which point I will probably grumble and curse and decide to forget the episode ever happen. *Looks at Voyager's Kes, Star Trek Nemesis...*) But as for Rose's arc being short-changed...I think Rose's arc is just different than the one we expected. But still valid. You might not like the tragic version as much, but I enjoyed the melancholy...that's just mileage variance. But where I'm *really* gonna get into trouble here...
I think we DID see the getting over it/moving into a better life arc onscreen. It just didn't belong to Rose...
It was Mickey's. I know, you're not a fan. I loved the guy, though...and his relationship with Rose was very much like Rose's could have been with the Doctor. He hangs on and hangs on and wants forever something that can never really be...but finally he looks around and says, "There's another world out there and it needs me", and he steps up and kicks ass. You might say he was still hung up on Rose when he came back, and from the fact that he was living with the Tylers, but I don't think that's necessarily true. He still cares about Rose, but he's far from the puppy dog he was once, and I think it's anybody's guess if their relationship now is platonic or romantic.
And for me, the little moment in Doomsday where he called the Doctor "boss" was gold. I love how their relationship developed.
*Goes into hiding* :?P
no subject
Date: 2006-07-11 03:57 am (UTC)*snerk* I think you're correct in that we're looking at this from enitrely different, equally valid, perspectives, and we're never going to agree on what we take from this episode. So I don't think you're brainless, or that you're trying to make me change my mind, and I assume you don't think the same of me. *g*
Pete & Jackie: I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Not many people seem to have as much of a problem with it as I do, which may mean it's a particular squick of mine.
Bridezilla and the Doctor Getting Over His Emo: Interesting. A lot of people do seem to see it as "the Doctor moving on," myself included. Maybe he'll still have emo for a couple episodes, but he's got to focus on this new problem, move the plot along in the Christmas special, etc. Maybe a bit more "life goes on," rather than "moving on," in the emotional sense? Whereas the last image of Rose we have is back with her family--which she's been indicating for two years she'd like to break ties with--and broken-hearted about the Doctor, a sobby, snotty grief which they focused on in excess of ten minutes in a show that's only forty-five minutes long. Seems unequal to me.
Rose's arc: Maybe I'm less trusting of my PTB? ;) Sure, she'll probably move on. I certainly hope so. But if Rusty's going to show that life goes on for the Doctor, then, if he wants me to believe the same of Rose, he should show it. Saying, oh, I'm working at Torchwood, my mom's having a baby, is not the same as showing. Possibly I'm a harder sell.
Mickey: I actually really like your idea about Mickey getting a conclusion to his arc. He's still not my favorite character in the world, but I liked him tons better starting with ROTC/AOS then I ever did in S1. But him seeing a bit of the universe with the Doctor and being inspired to do good things is actually a very plausible sort of arc. (Although if we find out at some later date that he and Rose got back together? I WILL NEVER WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN.)
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Rose's "arc" is actually a wickedly incisive satire on the "Boomerang Generation." Heh. (That would give credence to my theory that T&C might have been a satire on the decline of the British Empire, as well, score!) But I think that's born of overthinking things a bit much... *g*