B5: Season 4, Episodes 1-4

[icepixie]

I got sunburnt on the back of my neck today. I was outside for about twenty minutes. ARGH.

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I found the most awesome thing on YouTube yesterday. Apparently the 2000 Tony-winning musical was something called Contact, and it involves tons and tons of swing (and quickstep and foxtrot) dancing! Someone put up parts of Act 3 here: Put a Lid on It, Beyond the Sea, Simply Irresistible, Do You Wanna Dance?, Sing, Sing, Sing. I'm going to assume that a vital part of the story is missing, because the ending comes out of nowhere, but the dancing is incredible.

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I finally got to my first fourth-season disc of B5 today.

Two general notes:

1. They've been off the station a lot lately. That's kind of nifty.
2. Holy CRAP is everything involving Cartagia ever disturbing. Like, "ending of 'And the Rock Cried Out...'" disturbing. GAH.

The Hour of the Wolf
- Oh, Susan. *hugs* First you lose your captain, then you lose your boyfriend security chief. That's gotta suck.

- Hmm...is the voiceover from the upcoming bestseller, the Book of G'Kar?

- Oooh, nifty CGI camerawork in the credits, with the flyby over the station. And I see Lyta will be joining the main cast this year...

- Well, that alien in the council chamber has a pretty good point about this being a war you can never win, only survive. Somehow I doubt they'll defeat the concept of evil the Shadows for good by the end of the series.

- Susan. Tell me you did not just say "thermonucular." TELL ME THIS.

- Gee, I can't imagine who might've requested Londo's return...

- ...Yep. Ah, is Morden insane now? He's kind of talking in circles. (And shedding. Ick.)

- Did they change the piping on the command uniforms? It looks more purple now. I approve.

- Speaking of changes, Delenn's hair is so curly this year!

- "Respect is irrelevant. You will now be assimilated."

- *snerk* G'Kar in a fedora. Awesome.

- Aw, he doesn't want anyone to forget about Garibaldi! You're a good friend, G'Kar. I don't want anyone to forget about him either.

- BWAH! Daffy Duck is a household god--the Egyptian god of frustration. Zack, I didn't know you could be funny!

- Ah, here's that shot of the Shadows flying over Centauri Prime. Ohhhh, that's bad.

- Uh...wow. Cartagia is insane. He's reminding me of...is it Mad Emperor Yuri Vorbarra? Yuri was his name, right? The crazy one, anyway.

- We still have no explanation for Lyta's gills.

- *stares* THEY WENT THERE. I didn't think they would go there. But there's Cartagia talking to the preserved heads of his enemies. WOW.

- Oh, Susan. Perhaps Delenn should take away your vodka.

- I love the all-female rescue mission! (Well, all female but Lennier, anyway. Female-spearheaded, anyway.) There are so many wonderful women characters on this show.

- Can Delenn transmit telepathically through Lyta or something?

- Uh-oh. They've been seen by the Eye of Sauron.

- I wonder if the fact that the voice spoke to Delenn and Susan through the voices of their fathers means anything. Hmm.

- "Initiating 'getting the hell out of here' maneuver." *snerk* Oh, Lennier. You could hear the quotation marks in that sentence.

- Conspiracy'd!

Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?
- That's a very good question. And it isn't exactly answered by the end of the episode. This is worrisome.

- Lorien! I wondered when he was going to show up. I've heard much about him.

- Uh...I can imagine conceiving a thought without language. Wouldn't be able to describe it, but you could have it. Lorien's peddling falsehoods.

- No pulse? Meep!

- Wow, that version of the ticking-clock-as-lifetime metaphor is incredibly depressing.

- Aw, Marcus cut his hair. I don't think I like it as well.

- "I like it." HEE!

- Aw. Is it weird that I buy Sheridan/Delenn more through recorded messages than when they actually share a scene? Because I found that journal entry very sweet. And I loved the quote from his father about how if you're already falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly.

- ...Shouldn't the Centauri throne room be, I dunno, more ostentatious? Bigger? With room for thousands of subjects to view the emperor in all his glory? Maybe this is some kind of workaday throne room, and we just haven't seen the bigger one.

- The gift being G'Kar in 3...2...1...

- Oh, man. They're making G'Kar very Christlike here, aren't they? He's practically carrying his own cross. And of course the Centauri are the Romans mixed with Nazis...

- Garibaldi!

- Oh, Londo. You have some...humanity? Centaurianity? left. A smidgen, but a smidgen will do. Thank you for not being completely blackened with evil.

- So...Lorien's God/Iluvatar?

- ...Or not, since he can't resurrect Sheridan if he dies totally? Hmm. Maybe he's just Manwe.

- At any rate, he is aaaaaaaaaall about the Joseph Campbell. Wow. (Step into the abyss, die, and find yourself in doing so was Campbell's big thing. Well, one of his big things.)

- Of course Sheridan lives for Delenn.

- This was the first time I've actively liked the music on this show. Pretty.

The Summoning
- Oh, Susan. You took Marcus's advice about learning Minbari, but then you totally overshot yourself...

- I pity that poor crew. I'd be hard-pressed not to laugh...

- Oh, G'Kar. I think I saw that metal jester-style torture device at an exhibit on, well, medieval torture devices.

- "Pain technicians. They used to be called torturers, but ever since they got organized it's 'pain technicians.'" Especially disturbing, or perhaps prescient, in light of current revelations regarding the Bush administration and Gitmo. *shudders*

- "Initiating program"? Oh, this can't be good. Oh, Michael. (Man, my sense of pity hasn't had this much of a workout since maybe BSG's third season. I feel bad for EVERYONE.)

- New!Kosh is mean.

- Six years without setting foot on a planet where she can see the sky? Wow. That should qualify as cruel and unusual.

- Oh, Marcus, you hopeless romantic. Hopeless, I say. If only you were as transparent to Ivanova as you are to everyone else. This will only end in tears. TEARS, I SAY. And not just because I have certain foreknowledge--they can't play it up this much and have it be requited. It don't work that way.

- I...Marcus is a virgin? Really? REALLY? God, he is a hopeless romantic!

- So here's where the assocation of Ivanova/Marcus with unicorns comes from. I'd wondered about that for a while.

- Thaaaaat would be a big bunch of Vorlon ships.

- Here was where I joined Vir in nearly vomiting. I remember this show airing in syndication at, like, four in the afternoon. How did they manage that, exactly? GOD. Would anyone really care if Londo just shot Cartagia point blank? Surely there would be rejoicing in the streets!

- Sheridan coming back in Lorien's ship in 3...2...1... (Uh, did we ever find out how they escaped from that pit under Z'ha'dum?)

- "I was dead. But I'm better now." And B5 just turned into Monty Python for a moment.

- And now Sheridan's a messiah.

- Aw, Susan is totally Sheridan's little sister there. They're adorable.

- AND THE VORLONS JUST WENT FREAKING CRAZY. HOLY CRAP.

- Uh...seventy light years is not actually very far...er... (Do we know exactly how far known civilization extends in the B5 universe? I know Morden and Londo divided up the entire galaxy between them at one point, but I can't remember if they mentioned that they'd mapped every sector. They keep referring to shockingly low numbers of light-years between things, but perhaps it's purely a math error.)

Falling Towards Apotheosis
- Fascinating title.

- Susan...is now a journalist? Or perhaps FDR-in-training? (All we have to fear is fear itself!) How did she get stuck with this job, exactly?

- I see what they're doing with Sheridan's quasi-godhood status and Cartagia thinking the Shadows will make him a god (and both of them "falling" towards it in different ways), but I can't talk intelligently about it as it's after midnight and I'm tired. I appreciate the pairing of them, though.

- And now I'm joining Londo in attempting not to vomit when Cartagia introduces the dead heads on his desk. GAH.

- Centauri Prime will end in fire...callback to Kosh's prediction?

- Garibaldi is totally taking the pessimism/cranky crown from Ivanova here.

- Oh, dear. Kosh can shoot lightning?

- Was Delenn in on their plan? She looks horrified.

- Uh, Sheridan, it's generally not wise to step into a multi-thousand-volt electrical current...

- Lorien's fingers are creepy.

- Awww, Michael and Susan had a bonding moment over their mutual pessimism. I love those moments.

- Speaking of that moment...how are they going to fight a war on two fronts, again? There's going to be a slaughter at some point, isn't there? Or else someone's gonna have to sweet talk the Vorlons into not killing them all along with the Shadows. Um, will the galaxy wind up a smoking ruin by the time everyone's done? If so, can I head out towards Andromeda now?

- "Only the universe can create life"? Hmm. I wonder how intentional the phrasing was--I get that Lorien is, presumably, denying the existence of an anthropomorphized creator-god, but is he confirming that the universe is sentient and putting atoms together with intent (as the Minbari believe), or that amino acids coming together as they did to create life was a random event? The answer to that question would have profound influence on the interpretation of life in this universe, I would think--at least if we're to take Lorien as any kind of spiritual authority, which I guess we don't know yet.

- I was spoiled for Sheridan's twenty remaining years, but that didn't make it any less sad. :( And the Minbari live so long compared to humans, too! Poor Delenn. :(

- I guess they used up all the good Sheridan/Delenn mojo, because that was the worst proposal ever. He salvaged it a bit at the end, but the beginning and middle...wow.

- Blinding G'Kar in 3...2...1...

- Oh, G'Kar is now Tigh. And again--disturbing, disturbing ending. Who knew a door could be so creepy?

Comments

[alto2.livejournal.com]

Apparently the 2000 Tony-winning musical was something called Contact

Jaysis, here you go with the OLD again! (Ye gods, was that really so long ago??) You might be interested to know that there was quite a bit of controversy over its inclusion in the Musical category since it's in no way a traditional musical.

We still have no explanation for Lyta's gills.

Patience, my child.

- Uh...wow. Cartagia is insane. He's reminding me of...is it Mad Emperor Yuri Vorbarra? Yuri was his name, right? The crazy one, anyway.

He's Caligula. (Ever seen I, Claudius?) Which really messes with my head even now, because the actor, whose name is now escaping me, was the local minister on One Life to Live, which I was watching at the same time I was catching up on B5. (Actually, I think Cartagia is what finally got me off my arse to the library to borrow I, Claudius...)

- Uh...I can imagine conceiving a thought without language. Wouldn't be able to describe it, but you could have it. Lorien's peddling falsehoods.

Really? Something more than "Must eat" or "Mommy" or another idea of its ilk? Language and thought are a definite "Which came first?" item, but without language, you certainly can't have any sort of thought that transcends the extremely mundane. Definitely siding with Lorien here.

Marcus cut his hair. I don't think I like it as well.

Here I agree!

Especially disturbing, or perhaps prescient, in light of current revelations regarding the Bush administration and Gitmo.

Which is why, for the last eight years, every time some new announcement or discovery about the Bush administration came out, I would think/say, "This is bad. Very bad. I know this story. I've seen how it ends. It was on Babylon 5." (Which is also why I'm amazed that my cousin, who I've recently learned was a big B5 fan, approved of as much of W's crap as she did!)

I get that Lorien is, presumably, denying the existence of an anthropomorphized creator-god

This, to me, is the most interesting thing about B5--it's written by an atheist. And yet, I got more spirituality out of this show than I ever did out of all the years my parents dragged me to church. Somehow, in spite of the fact that he doesn't believe in a god, he gets it more than most of the religious people I've encountered (more than most Christians, to be sure, since I always feel that so many of them just parrot what they're supposed to say). I can't find the article now where he talked about how we need mythic signposts to show us/remind us of the way, but that always seemed to sum the show up to me. A show about spirituality and what life is all about, by an atheist. Helluva thing.

G'Kar is now Tigh

Oh, eeek.

[icepixie]

Jaysis, here you go with the OLD again! (Ye gods, was that really so long ago??)

This one you can't blame on me! That's simply the march of time, not me having no experience with things. :D

You might be interested to know that there was quite a bit of controversy over its inclusion in the Musical category since it's in no way a traditional musical.

I saw that on Wikipedia. Apparently they created a new category for stuff like that after it won that year.

Patience, my child.

Well, we found out the answer just a couple episodes later...

He's Caligula.

Ohhhh, yeah. Forgot about him. That would make sense, too. (But if/when you get around to reading the Vorkosigan novels, you'll notice a distinct similarity between Cartagia and Mad Emperor Yuri as well.)

I've never seen I, Claudius.

Really? Something more than "Must eat" or "Mommy" or another idea of its ilk?

Well, that kind of thought was what I was thinking of--"cold," "hungry," "lonely," etc. But that's still thought, and it still precedes language. (Otherwise, why would babies cry? Speaking of which, I remember something from before age eighteen months or so very clearly: I was outside, in my playpen, and it was cold. I didn't have the words to express my annoyance at being cold, so I cried. I don't know if I was completely preverbal at that point or if I knew enough words to know that a word existed for my condition, but I just didn't know it.) You might even be able to convey semi-complex thought with just images and sound--like this short film does. (There are a couple instances of written text, but I'd argue that they aren't needed to understand the story.)

Anyway, back when language was first developing, surely someone had to think (non-verbally), "I want to communicate the idea of 'food' [or whatever] without needing to point to it. Let me associate a sound with it." Thus, language. At least in my uneducated assumption; I await being proven wrong by actual scientists.

Which is why, for the last eight years, every time some new announcement or discovery about the Bush administration came out, I would think/say, "This is bad. Very bad. I know this story. I've seen how it ends. It was on Babylon 5."

Sadly true. Although I suppose we've been compared to the Roman empire for some decades now, so B5 is just a more detailed version of that comparison...

I can't find the article now where he talked about how we need mythic signposts to show us/remind us of the way, but that always seemed to sum the show up to me. A show about spirituality and what life is all about, by an atheist. Helluva thing.

Mmmm. He's very good at transferring Campbell and Jung into a story.

[alto2.livejournal.com]

I've never seen I, Claudius.

You should. It's a wild ride through the history of the Roman Empire. Derek Jacobi is Claudius, John Hurt is Caligula (and believe me, the real thing makes Cartagia look like a kid with action figures), and Patrick Stewart and Brian Blessed are in it as well, among others I can't recall right now. Excellent stuff.

You might even be able to convey semi-complex thought with just images and sound--like this short film does.

Cool film, though I don't think it's a fair example for the language vs. thought debate, because it's built on what we, as a culture, already know. The fact that it doesn't happen to use language doesn't mean we aren't using the language we already know to process things like, "Hey, it's a floaty box! What's he going to do with that?"

Anyway, back when language was first developing, surely someone had to think (non-verbally), "I want to communicate the idea of 'food' [or whatever] without needing to point to it. Let me associate a sound with it." Thus, language.

That's exactly what I'm saying, actually. But the thing is, at that point, you're talking about extremely basic language, and there is very little thought that goes beyond the language available to the mind. You may come up with "spear", but only then can you come up with "throw" and put the two together. See what I'm saying? We start out from the fantastically mundane, and build on it, and only then can we start to form complex thoughts. I do think that language forms because someone gets tired of pointing to/gesturing about a rock and just makes a noise to go with it, but it takes a helluva long time to get from that stage to anything complex, and longer to get to something abstract. Without giving names to those mundane bits of information so you can build on them, though, you'd never get there at all.

I see this all the time with my ESL kids, where one of us may have a word or expression that the other doesn't have, and we find it difficult to explain to the other because of the linguistic gaps, whichever side they may be on. (Try to explain how to use articles, or verb tenses, to a kid whose native tongue doesn't have them and you'll see what I'm talking about in an even more dramatic way.) Sort of like the way the Iroquois had no word for "garbage" and no conception of the idea of throwing things away because it was not something their society ever encountered, so when first encountering the notion, they were baffled as to why anyone would not find a use for, say, every part of an animal they'd killed.

[icepixie]

Re: I, Claudius: Sounds fun. I'll add it to my Netflix queue.

Cool film, though I don't think it's a fair example for the language vs. thought debate, because it's built on what we, as a culture, already know. The fact that it doesn't happen to use language doesn't mean we aren't using the language we already know to process things like, "Hey, it's a floaty box! What's he going to do with that?"

But do we need to know it's called a floaty box thing in order to wonder what he's going to do with it? Could we not just have a pictoral representation of a box in our minds and leave it at that?

Although now that I think about it, it would be harder to wonder "what's he going to do with that" without language, because the act of wondering would mean thinking of all the various things you've seen done with a box and trying to imagine new ones, while we with language can just go, "I wonder what he'll do with that?" in a fraction of the time.

You may come up with "spear", but only then can you come up with "throw" and put the two together. See what I'm saying?

Maybe it's the example, but I could see thinking of and communicating "to throw a spear" without language. But basically we are in agreement: complex thought is impossible without language. From your original response, it sounds to me like you were thinking Lorien had implied that in the script, and I was taking him much more literally.

Try to explain how to use articles, or verb tenses, to a kid whose native tongue doesn't have them and you'll see what I'm talking about in an even more dramatic way.

I have done this (the articles). It sucks. Although luckily for me, it's always been at the university level, and they've had to pass TOEFL well enough to ensure that they at least have some knowledge of the concept an article, even if they can't use them very well.

[alto2.livejournal.com]

I think we do basically agree. I don't think there's any question that some sort of thought has to come first, it's just that that level isn't going to get you much further than a grunt would have. The two are so closely intertwined in any case that it's hard to separate, which is the point of what Lorien says, IMHO. And you're right, I take it literally, but not as literally as you did.

I have done this (the articles). It sucks.

Yup. Though the lack of verb tenses (Thai) is the one that blew my mind. (And for the record, my kids have to take the TOEFL for admission, too.)