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icepixiePoints of Departure
Good god, from his first moment on screen, Sheridan is so freaking perky and smug and Full Of The Goodness Of Saving Kittens From Trees that I kind of want to smack him. "If they so much as blink in your direction, yell. We'll be there"? Oh, Sheridan. And then there's his pompous windbag speech, which gets points for the interruptions and for him delivering it to an empty room, but yes, ow. And oh lord, the orange obsession starts here too.
Okay, yes, he's better than Sinclair. I grew to like Sinclair much more than I did the first time through, but I can definitely see that Sheridan is a vast improvement. And yet he knows exactly how to annoy the everliving bejeebus out of me. (I think it was probably a very wise move to have him angsting over Anna in the next episode, because that does create sympathy--even if that sympathy is in part based on relief that we didn't have Michael O'Hare delivering those lines.)
I do like how Sheridan makes Susan downright sunny. She's really adorable when she's in hero-worship mode. See, she could be happy if only life didn't keep giving her so much to be sad about! Like, say, Garibaldi being in a coma. Aw, she comes to see him at the same time every day. And prays for him. *fans tiny little shipper flame* Maybe this time it'll happen! *snerk*
I also like having Sheridan assert that his was the only victory of the entire Earth-Minbar war, and he won't apologize for it. It was a good way of setting him apart from Sinclair, and also of illustrating his character in just a few words.
I've always found the idea of Minbari souls transmigrating into Human bodies, and the implied need/desire by the Minbari to kind of draw them back into the fold, to be utterly fascinating. Although I wonder why the idea of killing more humans to get the souls back into circulation, as it were, didn't occur to them. Maybe they figured that because they were "diminishing" during the war, they ought to find another way. But as cool as I find it,* this is where my distaste for Sheridan/Delenn starts, I think. The prophecy that she would change in order to link the species, as well the whole changing for a man! thing, robs the relationship of all spontaneity and thus interest for me.
Daily random: Corwin got a haircut! He no longer sports a mullet!
* I think it would incredibly entertaining to take the concept, file off the serial numbers, and write a romantic comedy about an alien who thinks a particular Human has "the other half" of his/her/its soul, and thus they are destined to mate and/or marry. The Human would be like, "OH HELL NO," but would of course eventually be won over.
Revelations
Aptly-titled, this.
I guess I'll get the Earth-related stuff out of the way first. Uhhh...sucks to be Human right now? I forgot they figured out the Psi Corps involvement so quickly. And how slimy Clark is from the very beginning. And, switching plotlines for a moment, how early Z'ha'dum gets mentioned.
It also sucks to be Londo, though he doesn't really realize it yet. A little further down the path he goes...
And G'Kar seems to know the most about the Shadows of anyone now, except for Kosh and perhaps Delenn. Because he does Research! :D I've forgotten--were the Centauri involved in the first Shadow War? I seem to recall the Narn had just started wandering out into their solar system (which G'Kar's reading from the Book of G'Quan this time around seems to support), and...possibly they helped the Minbari and Vorlons wage war? Maybe not. It's all very foggy. At any rate, G'Kar got to SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF ME with his speech about things waking up on long-dead worlds and trying to gather their forces quietly and out of the notice of others. It sent chills all down my spine and back up again.
While I'm on that topic, I liked the visual contradictions and ambiguities the editor put into this one. We have G'Kar making that incredibly spine-tingling speech about the darkness coming again, but we see Garibaldi waking up and Delenn coming out of her cocoon. Then we see Delenn examining her new appearance at the "rough beast" line of the Yeats poem.
Speaking of which. First of all, yes "The Second Coming" is the perfect piece of verse for this point in the series. On the other hand, that poem is so overused in our culture that it's lost almost all impact for me. (Sometimes, if I haven't seen it referenced in a while, I can reread it and it'll catch me off guard. But it's fairly rare.) As well, I think of it as so intimately tied to the immediately post-WWI, Modernist period from which it comes--particularly some lines G'Kar doesn't read--that it's jarring to hear it used in other contexts. I also know all too much about about Yeats's arcane spiritualist philosophy and the connections it has too this poem to rewire my perception of it entirely around them. (Don't read A Vision. Just don't. Trust me.) In short, it's the best possible thing they could've used, and yet I can't feel the entirety of the impact I know JMS thinks is there. [end Modernism/Irish Lit specialist tangent]
A few other things:
Delenn: "I did this with the blessings of my government..."
Me: "Define 'blessings.'"
And here's Anna. In retrospect: Yeeeeah, that plotline was definitely supposed to be for Catherine. I'm kind of glad she escaped unscathed, though, despite the fact that the impact would've been greater had they been able to keep her in that position on the gameboard. (...She could have been yet another of Sheridan's former wives?)
Daily Fools, Fools!: Seriously, what the hell kind of a name is Icarus for a spaceship? That's like a freaking engraved invitation to disaster, you know?
Daily Hilarity: "There, you see? One deserts his post without any explanation. The other one picks the most breathtakingly inconvenient moment possible to explore new career options. Like becoming a butterfly!" Oh, Londo. &hearts
Good god, from his first moment on screen, Sheridan is so freaking perky and smug and Full Of The Goodness Of Saving Kittens From Trees that I kind of want to smack him. "If they so much as blink in your direction, yell. We'll be there"? Oh, Sheridan. And then there's his pompous windbag speech, which gets points for the interruptions and for him delivering it to an empty room, but yes, ow. And oh lord, the orange obsession starts here too.
Okay, yes, he's better than Sinclair. I grew to like Sinclair much more than I did the first time through, but I can definitely see that Sheridan is a vast improvement. And yet he knows exactly how to annoy the everliving bejeebus out of me. (I think it was probably a very wise move to have him angsting over Anna in the next episode, because that does create sympathy--even if that sympathy is in part based on relief that we didn't have Michael O'Hare delivering those lines.)
I do like how Sheridan makes Susan downright sunny. She's really adorable when she's in hero-worship mode. See, she could be happy if only life didn't keep giving her so much to be sad about! Like, say, Garibaldi being in a coma. Aw, she comes to see him at the same time every day. And prays for him. *fans tiny little shipper flame* Maybe this time it'll happen! *snerk*
I also like having Sheridan assert that his was the only victory of the entire Earth-Minbar war, and he won't apologize for it. It was a good way of setting him apart from Sinclair, and also of illustrating his character in just a few words.
I've always found the idea of Minbari souls transmigrating into Human bodies, and the implied need/desire by the Minbari to kind of draw them back into the fold, to be utterly fascinating. Although I wonder why the idea of killing more humans to get the souls back into circulation, as it were, didn't occur to them. Maybe they figured that because they were "diminishing" during the war, they ought to find another way. But as cool as I find it,* this is where my distaste for Sheridan/Delenn starts, I think. The prophecy that she would change in order to link the species, as well the whole changing for a man! thing, robs the relationship of all spontaneity and thus interest for me.
Daily random: Corwin got a haircut! He no longer sports a mullet!
* I think it would incredibly entertaining to take the concept, file off the serial numbers, and write a romantic comedy about an alien who thinks a particular Human has "the other half" of his/her/its soul, and thus they are destined to mate and/or marry. The Human would be like, "OH HELL NO," but would of course eventually be won over.
Revelations
Aptly-titled, this.
I guess I'll get the Earth-related stuff out of the way first. Uhhh...sucks to be Human right now? I forgot they figured out the Psi Corps involvement so quickly. And how slimy Clark is from the very beginning. And, switching plotlines for a moment, how early Z'ha'dum gets mentioned.
It also sucks to be Londo, though he doesn't really realize it yet. A little further down the path he goes...
And G'Kar seems to know the most about the Shadows of anyone now, except for Kosh and perhaps Delenn. Because he does Research! :D I've forgotten--were the Centauri involved in the first Shadow War? I seem to recall the Narn had just started wandering out into their solar system (which G'Kar's reading from the Book of G'Quan this time around seems to support), and...possibly they helped the Minbari and Vorlons wage war? Maybe not. It's all very foggy. At any rate, G'Kar got to SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF ME with his speech about things waking up on long-dead worlds and trying to gather their forces quietly and out of the notice of others. It sent chills all down my spine and back up again.
While I'm on that topic, I liked the visual contradictions and ambiguities the editor put into this one. We have G'Kar making that incredibly spine-tingling speech about the darkness coming again, but we see Garibaldi waking up and Delenn coming out of her cocoon. Then we see Delenn examining her new appearance at the "rough beast" line of the Yeats poem.
Speaking of which. First of all, yes "The Second Coming" is the perfect piece of verse for this point in the series. On the other hand, that poem is so overused in our culture that it's lost almost all impact for me. (Sometimes, if I haven't seen it referenced in a while, I can reread it and it'll catch me off guard. But it's fairly rare.) As well, I think of it as so intimately tied to the immediately post-WWI, Modernist period from which it comes--particularly some lines G'Kar doesn't read--that it's jarring to hear it used in other contexts. I also know all too much about about Yeats's arcane spiritualist philosophy and the connections it has too this poem to rewire my perception of it entirely around them. (Don't read A Vision. Just don't. Trust me.) In short, it's the best possible thing they could've used, and yet I can't feel the entirety of the impact I know JMS thinks is there. [end Modernism/Irish Lit specialist tangent]
A few other things:
Delenn: "I did this with the blessings of my government..."
Me: "Define 'blessings.'"
And here's Anna. In retrospect: Yeeeeah, that plotline was definitely supposed to be for Catherine. I'm kind of glad she escaped unscathed, though, despite the fact that the impact would've been greater had they been able to keep her in that position on the gameboard. (...She could have been yet another of Sheridan's former wives?)
Daily Fools, Fools!: Seriously, what the hell kind of a name is Icarus for a spaceship? That's like a freaking engraved invitation to disaster, you know?
Daily Hilarity: "There, you see? One deserts his post without any explanation. The other one picks the most breathtakingly inconvenient moment possible to explore new career options. Like becoming a butterfly!" Oh, Londo. &hearts
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no subject
Date: 2010-06-23 09:01 pm (UTC)I swear by all that's holy, this is where I was the last time I watched the show. But... somehow, this time, he has grown on me like an insidious mold. I grinned back at him the first time he showed up! It's like a sickness! A horrible stupid-puppy-cute sickness. *Headdesk*
even if that sympathy is in part based on relief that we didn't have Michael O'Hare delivering those lines.
Yeeeeeah. That's definitely an aspect of my Overwhelming Sheridan Love this time around. "Oh, you're not Sinclair! I love you!!!"
...And now, a brief moment of madness, wondering if that's what was going through Delenn's head. Wakes up, sees a totally new Human captain, brief moment of confusion followed by "oh, thank Valen, this must be the one I'm supposed to marry! Hooray!"
She's really adorable when she's in hero-worship mode.
Whereas Sheridan makes Garibaldi automatically go grumpy-face. Watch it, or you're going to get me shipping them, too.
But as cool as I find it,* this is where my distaste for Sheridan/Delenn starts, I think. The prophecy that she would change in order to link the species, as well the whole changing for a man! thing, robs the relationship of all spontaneity and thus interest for me.
This. Seriously, first time 'round, it drove me crazy. She's not really in love with him, she doesn't even know him, he sure as HELL doesn't know her, etc. etc. and also it makes Lennier unhappy *coughs* But... at some point, that became a weird, twisted part of the charm of their relationship, for me, I guess? Like, Sheridan so clearly has an interstellar production of Romeo and Juliet going on in his head - their love is so powerful and pure that it transcends all the hatred and remnants of the war, and Delenn is so perfect and funny and sweet and wonderful, and isn't it all so romantic? Whereas Delenn is over here completely manipulating everything and throwing herself whole-heartedly into this relationship for reasons that one could easily debate have absolutely nothing to do with love. She comes to love him in time, I think, but how much of it to start is Delenn being in love with her destiny, her place as the Holy Bridge Between Peoples that was spoken of in prophecy... not to mention getting rid of all that guilt from that whole icky genocide incident.
So, yeah, I might be slightly screwed up in that something about exactly how messed up and, in the end, inappropriate, this relationship is... just makes me love it.
Also, I wholely endorse this 'original fiction' idea of yours. You should do it. ♥
Clearly Delenn's definition of "blessings" is "they told me I shouldn't, but they failed to actually tie me up and stick me in a closet on the Grey Council's ship, so here I am." Their rules don't apply to her. Because she's just more awesome than them, and she knows what Valen was talking about even if nobody else does. Including Sinclair. :P
(...She could have been yet another of Sheridan's former wives?)
We don't need another. Really.
The other one picks the most breathtakingly inconvenient moment possible to explore new career options. Like becoming a butterfly!"
♥♥♥
no subject
Date: 2010-06-23 09:50 pm (UTC)If I knew a cure, I'd offer it! I actually mind him more this time around, I think; maybe it's because I know how insufferable he's going to get in S4.
Yeeeeeah. That's definitely an aspect of my Overwhelming Sheridan Love this time around. "Oh, you're not Sinclair! I love you!!!"
Meanwhile, I...sorta came to like Sinclair. It was like I finally learned to disassociate the character from the actor.
...And now, a brief moment of madness, wondering if that's what was going through Delenn's head. Wakes up, sees a totally new Human captain, brief moment of confusion followed by "oh, thank Valen, this must be the one I'm supposed to marry! Hooray!"
...MY NEW CANON, YO.
Whereas Sheridan makes Garibaldi automatically go grumpy-face.
Hee. Poor, mistrustful Garibaldi. At least he eventually warms to him, before Bester screws with his head.
Watch it, or you're going to get me shipping them, too.
Oh, now you've just made me all the more intent on getting you to do so! :D
I find the Sheridan-as-Romeo and Delenn-as-Strategist intellectually interesting--especially this time around, when I can really see how crafty Delenn is being--but at the same time...I have no emotional connection to it. It's rather a lot like how I look on Aragorn and Arwen from LOTR (OH GEE, I WONDER WHY THAT MIGHT BE?); the destiny is cool, but I'll just be over here caring a lot more about, I dunno, Eowyn and Faramir or something.
I think this might be behind my love for Ivanova/Garibaldi. They have zero basis in canon, and yet I adore them beyond speaking. Something about the way surface cynicism masks idealistic/romantic natures in each of them, plus the adorable flirty banter, just short circuits my brain and makes me babble about how they are obviously MADE FOR EACH OTHER. It's all about the chemistry, apparently.
Also, I wholely endorse this 'original fiction' idea of yours. You should do it. ♥
I am tempted! I would have to file off a lot of serial numbers, though.
Clearly Delenn's definition of "blessings" is "they told me I shouldn't, but they failed to actually tie me up and stick me in a closet on the Grey Council's ship, so here I am."
*sporfle* Yes, that seems about the size of it.
Their rules don't apply to her. Because she's just more awesome than them, and she knows what Valen was talking about even if nobody else does. Including Sinclair. :P
Heh. "My awesome will not be contained by your interpretations of prophecy! My prophecy! Mine! MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE!"
no subject
Date: 2010-06-24 09:20 pm (UTC)You'll be happy to know that we watched the episode your current icon is from last night. In context, the line made me snerk quite a bit.
It's rather a lot like how I look on Aragorn and Arwen from LOTR (OH GEE, I WONDER WHY THAT MIGHT BE?); the destiny is cool, but I'll just be over here caring a lot more about, I dunno, Eowyn and Faramir or something.
It is a pretty apt comparison, isn't it? :P I think what makes me more interested in Delenn and Sheridan than I am in Aragorn and Arwen is... honestly, we get more of them together. I like the way their relationship develops. And in the early ones, I do like how insanely obvious Delenn is about courting Sheridan, while he's so clearly confuzzled by the whole thing. ♥ That said, part of this built up because I kept writing stuff about Lennier and Delenn, and... Sheridan kept creeping in. I love them best as an awkward triangle, particularly when I can lean on how totally screwy their relationship (all three sides of it) really is underneath the 'destiny.' It's more like if, before and after they were married, Eowyn was hanging out in Minas Tirith and... I don't know, working as the captain of Araogorn's guard or something. ...Obviously the analogy kind of falls on its face somewhere around here, but I'm slightly tempted to write that AU, now.
"My awesome will not be contained by your interpretations of prophecy! My prophecy! Mine! MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE!"
Exactly. ♥
no subject
Date: 2010-06-24 11:49 pm (UTC)\O/! I love that line/moment. THEY ARE SO CUTE. CUTE ENOUGH TO MAKE ME CAPSLOCK. *squishes them*
...Obviously the analogy kind of falls on its face somewhere around here, but I'm slightly tempted to write that AU, now.
*snerk* I completely support this idea.
You know that episode in S5 where Delenn tells Sheridan that Lennier is, you know, really kind of into her, and he realizes that however progressive his self-image, he's just not ready for that? I have to admit, I wonder how things would've worked out if he'd been less adamant about "no threesomes"...
no subject
Date: 2010-06-25 12:26 am (UTC)I'm really looking forward to catching up to "Comes the Inquisitor" in my rewatch - I remember that as one of the few times Lennier and Sheridan actually get some screen-time alone together, and I'm curious how it'll read now that I know what happens after.
Personally, I still blame the whole horrible shal-fan or whatever it was situation for the bad feelings between Sheridan and Lennier. The whole "woo-hoo" bit and all that. *Twitches*
no subject
Date: 2010-06-25 01:22 am (UTC)Mmm. Yeah, I would agree there.
I suspect Delenn would have kept pushing and tweaking and manipulating both of them until she managed to twist them into a threesome. How long her manipulations would have held up is a totally separate question...
Oh, Delenn. You really needed to let someone else take on that prophecy, dear.
Ohhhh, "Comes the Inquisitor." That episode makes me want to break things. Grrr. Grrrrr. (I have the most contrary opinions about this show, I swear. Everyone else I know loves that episode, but I find it morally and intellectually offensive.)
Personally, I still blame the whole horrible shal-fan or whatever it was situation for the bad feelings between Sheridan and Lennier. The whole "woo-hoo" bit and all that. *Twitches*
Gaaaahhhh, yes. Not anyone's finest moment, that, not the least JMS's.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-25 05:13 am (UTC)Honestly? I don't remember it that well anymore. I remember finding it disturbing and awkward, and I remember that Delenn orders Lennier to leave her there with Sebastian, and I remember that he goes and finds Sheridan and gets him to rescue Delenn. Other than that, I pretty much remember it being our first indication that, hi, the Vorlons? Might not be so great after all.
I do remember liking it, but... I also remember liking it in part because it was so weird and upsetting. Well. That and because it had some really great emotional moments for Delenn and Lennier, and I'm unspeakably weak for that.
Anyway, yeah. Like I said, I'll be interested to see what I think of it the second time around.
Not anyone's finest moment, that, not the least JMS's.
Not in the slightest, no. I mean, really... "Woo hoo?" REALLY? It kind of makes you wonder...
no subject
Date: 2010-06-25 03:54 pm (UTC)"Woo hoo?" REALLY? It kind of makes you wonder...
Doesn't it. *sigh* Of course, this is the man who made tentacle!pron canon in his universe, and actually showed us telepathic mindsex in S5, but made it something we really didn't want to see at all, so.
Edited for HTML fail.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-25 04:03 pm (UTC)On the other hand, like you said, part of that whole thing is what the Vorlons in general were really looking for, as opposed to what we thought they were looking for, so... yeah. I haven't had tea yet, I'm not in best-functioning. Forgive if I'm making no sense. Suffice to say, "I agree."
Of course, this is the man who made tentacle!pron canon in his universe, and actually showed us telepathic mindsex in S5, but made it something we really didn't want to see at all, so.
Come to that, does he actually manage sex anywhere in the whole show that doesn't turn out to be horrifying? I don't think he does. I needed the brain-bleach big time after the whole telepathic sex thing. Eugh. All of that in mind, I think I'm very glad none of my favorite pairings actually managed to get together.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-25 05:45 pm (UTC)(OMG, if I hadn't been thoroughly spoiled for what happens to Ivanova, I don't think I would've made it through those episodes. Someone would've found me dead of a heart attack in my front of my computer.)
Come to that, does he actually manage sex anywhere in the whole show that doesn't turn out to be horrifying?
I'm trying to think of an instance, and I am FAILING. (Hell, in that story he wrote for some magazine after the show, he managed to make Marcus/Ivanova REALLY INCREDIBLY CREEPY and HORRIFYING.)
no subject
Date: 2010-06-25 09:10 pm (UTC)I knew in advance, but I still ended up curled up on the floor in one of my then-housemates' bedrooms, kind of freaking out at her. She was very kind, despite not having the foggiest clue what I was talking about. Apparently the little medical apparatuses that are used to hold your head still after a neck injury? Really freak me out. Who knew.
And yeah, that story. Oh god, that story.
I think the worst bit was that I could never quite tell whether or not JMS meant it to be a good ending. o_O I'd like to think he's sane enough to know it isn't, but I could never quite be sure...
no subject
Date: 2010-06-25 11:32 pm (UTC)Huh. I guess as phobias go, it's at least not that likely to affect your day-to-day life?
I draw the line at "of course he'd clone her and remove her memories of the last forty or so years and then strand the two of them alone on a deserted planet and lie to her, AND THAT WOULD BE TOTALLY OKAY, RIGHT?" UM, HOW ABOUT NO.
ALL OF THE ABOVE. The thing about it is...I can see Marcus cloning her and then freezing himself until she's the right age, because Marcus is actually a little creepy where Susan is concerned (cf. that moment somewhere near the end of S4 where he runs his hand over her face while she's sleeping and says, "You'll never know," which I found a little threatening). However, erasing her memory and then stranding them on a planet so they can have creepy!sex forever while she doesn't know any better? OH, HELL NO.
I think the worst bit was that I could never quite tell whether or not JMS meant it to be a good ending. o_O I'd like to think he's sane enough to know it isn't, but I could never quite be sure...
Ditto.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-25 11:46 pm (UTC)He is a bit, yes. It's sort of... I mean, we're fairly sure he means well, right? But it's still kind of like "ohhhhhhkay, there, pal, how's about you back away just a teensy bit." I mean, I love him, but I'd also love to smack him upside the head and say "you know, if you play it a bit cool for a while and give a girl a chance to get used to you and decide you're not going to pester her to death, she'd probably be a hell of a lot more likely to like you back!" And YES to the "You'll never know" line. Seriously, wtf was JMS thinking?
Anyway. Even taking into account the memory-erasing, it totally passes imagining to think that Susan wouldn't figure it out eventually, and when she did... I would not want to be anywhere nearby. If that travesty actually happened, Marcus would wake up one morning a few months into their charming little permanent vacation and discover he has a booted foot squashing his throat, as the world's angriest Ivanova leans over him, ready to whoop his ass all around the charming little lake he's no doubt chosen to settle beside. And then jury-rig the shuttle and leave him there.
Personally, I think it's best to leave it at the dying, with possible addition of a nice Day of the Dead interlude. I still cling to the hope of a revival a few years after SiL, but I'd really rather keep that a theoretical possibility so I don't have to remember how badly it would probably get screwed up if it actually happened.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-26 05:14 am (UTC)In my head, that story continues for another few pages in which clone!Susan puts two and two together and kicks the crap out of him. She then, as you say, jury-rigs the shuttle and leaves him there.