B5 Rewatch: "The Long Dark," "Spider in the Web"

[icepixie]

The Long Dark
Yeah, arc-wise, there's not a lot to recommend this episode, and evil energy beings are a little passe. I did think Mariah's story of having left on a cryoship bare years before Earth got jumpgate technology was poignant and interesting, but to reach its full potential, it would have needed to be told from her POV before we'd gotten used to this universe.

My not-so-inner Irish history geek got a bit of a giggle out of Franklin giving her "devalera" to restart her heart.

Spider in the Web
Somewhat more satisfactory, although...does Bureau 13 ever come back? Maybe it just gets subsumed into the larger Clark + Psi Corps + Shadows = Trifecta of Evil plot.

I don't have the energy at the moment to do something as complicated as paragraphs, so here are bullet points:

- Hee, Amanda Carter's ancestor was John Carter, the first man to go to Mars.

- But Adrienne Barbeau is never going to be anyone but a creepy, lecherous snake charmer for me thanks to Carnivale.

- Sheridan: "My duties don't include spying on civilians!"
Me: "Only on the military." (cf. "All Alone in the Night")

- Heh, Ivanova defenestrated a telepath!

- Ivanova: "[Talia]'s an...interesting person."
Me: "Define 'interesting.' Preferably in ways that do not rely on you wanting to sleep with her."

Although she's slowly, slowly getting more interesting. She has a moral quandry now, anyway--she's too devoted to the Corps to tattle on the Psi Cop she saw in Abel's vision, but she's definitely beginning to have doubts. OR IS SHE? Considering the alternate personality is, possibly, operating her body RIGHT THIS VERY MOMENT...oh, Susan, no, you really can't trust her. Don't say such things.

- Speaking of Abel, that's not a name you choose lightly for a character, but I couldn't figure out who his Cain was. (Also, please tell me I was not the only one who had "Gentlemen, we can rebuild him!" running through their head at a certain point in this episode...)

- Is it just me, or is security really dumb sometimes to serve the plot? Because, really, would you have let Talia go in there completely unaccompanied before checking it out?

- One thing I really like about the show is the throwaway references to nifty things they put in. This time, we had Sheridan casually ask if Abel's weapon was a "slaver's glove," which presents some fascinating possibilities for what's going on in the galaxy outside of B5.

Comments

[mylittleredgirl.livejournal.com]

SPIDER IN THE WEB OMG. *squeee* There is Talia/Garibaldi UST for reals! But yeah, I always thought the security guards were kind of impressively stupid in this episode.

Oh, IVANOVA, and your desire to sleep with Talia, even though you so don't admit it. I squee a lot at that too. :) (Talia/Garibaldi/Susan OT3? Something for everyone!)

[icepixie]

Why am I not surprised you squee at this episode? :D

But yeah, I always thought the security guards were kind of impressively stupid in this episode.

And even Garibaldi! He was there when she went into Amanda's quarters by herself. Argh.

(Talia/Garibaldi/Susan OT3? Something for everyone!)

...You know, of all the potential OT3s on this show, that one seems like the most realistic possibility. At least two of the connections are canonical, which is more than I can say for most of my other OT3s. (And I still swear someone on the show was rooting for Ivanova/Garibaldi, because the flirting, yes.)

[mylittleredgirl.livejournal.com]

Seriously, WHERE is the magic machine that generates perfect fic when I want it??? I want to read my new OT3 now. It could be smut! It could be angst! (It would probably be angst.) I'm actually not sure how you could do fluff with these three but you could try it!

[icepixie]

Seriously, WHERE is the magic machine that generates perfect fic when I want it???

I don't know, but it needs to put in an appearance!

(It would probably be angst.)

...Gonna have to agree there.

I'm actually not sure how you could do fluff with these three but you could try it!

I think Daffy Duck would have to make an appearance in a fluff fic for those three.

Okay, semi-serious idea: S5, Ivanova stays on as Captain, and Talia, I dunno, magically shows back up, and she is PISSED at the Corps. She gets rid of the telepathic restraining order in Garibaldi's head, and they all three go hunting Bester. And then somehow become an OT3, I don't really know how because I've never written an OT3 before.

Perhaps there could be some kind of really cheesy mind-meld when she's getting rid of the mental block? Like she needs another mind to bounce off of in order to remove it or something? That might be too cheesetastic for words, though.

[mylittleredgirl.livejournal.com]

Ooooh... what if Garibaldi and Ivanova go together to rescue Talia? And it's sort of understood during the rescue operation that they both love her. But then... I don't know, they get captured together, and ... emotionally interdependent lust happens?

Why do I say things like "I really think you couldn't do fluff with this" because now I want to write it, but it would be bad, because this is not a fluff pairing! Aughghghhhhhh... stupid me and my stupid love of stupid challenges. (And stupid bedtimes. *eyes clock and wills it to slow down*)

[icepixie]

Ooooh... what if Garibaldi and Ivanova go together to rescue Talia? And it's sort of understood during the rescue operation that they both love her. But then... I don't know, they get captured together, and ... emotionally interdependent lust happens?

That sounds a lot more plausible than my scenario.

Why do I say things like "I really think you couldn't do fluff with this" because now I want to write it, but it would be bad, because this is not a fluff pairing! Aughghghhhhhh... stupid me and my stupid love of stupid challenges. (And stupid bedtimes. *eyes clock and wills it to slow down*)

I WOULD TOTALLY READ YOUR OT3 FLUFF. Write it, write it! *eg*

[mylittleredgirl.livejournal.com]

You've enabled me after I've already taken my insomnia sedatives! I think if I wrote that fic right now it would be very short and a bit deranged, haha. Just to make it all the more implausible, I think I should set the fluff fic during the war. Hehehe.

Okay, for our more plausible OT3 fic, what was the relationship status pre-Divided Loyalties? Do we go canon and say Talia hooked up with Susan but Garibaldi is super into her, or do we change canon around a bit (since in canon they NEVER WENT AFTER HER OR TRIED TO STOP HER FROM BEING TAKEN OFF THE STATION, aughh).

[icepixie]

You've enabled me after I've already taken my insomnia sedatives! I think if I wrote that fic right now it would be very short and a bit deranged, haha.

Which is a pretty good description of the style they would naturally lend themselves to, you must admit...

Just to make it all the more implausible, I think I should set the fluff fic during the war. Hehehe.

Hee. I'm currently writing fluff fic set during the war. Hey, there were pauses in the hostilities. (Michael is like, "I am teaching you to cook. Look, it even has vegetables. You'll like it." Because apparently the Susan in my head is a terrible cook and really likes salad.)

Okay, for our more plausible OT3 fic, what was the relationship status pre-Divided Loyalties? Do we go canon and say Talia hooked up with Susan but Garibaldi is super into her, or do we change canon around a bit

I'd say go for canon. She and Susan briefly hooked up, but by the end she wasn't totally immune to Garibaldi, just hadn't done anything about it yet.

(since in canon they NEVER WENT AFTER HER OR TRIED TO STOP HER FROM BEING TAKEN OFF THE STATION, aughh)

Yeah, that was kind of like, "Hey, Psi Corps! Enjoy having all of our secrets!" of them, wasn't it? They might've at least tried to keep her on the station until they assessed what she knew. (Actually, I'm sort of thinking they might have arranged an "accident" so Psi Corps can't get whatever Talia found out. Possibly my versions of these characters are much darker than they actually are on the series.)

[mylittleredgirl.livejournal.com]

(Actually, I'm sort of thinking they might have arranged an "accident" so Psi Corps can't get whatever Talia found out. Possibly my versions of these characters are much darker than they actually are on the series.)

Yikes! Possibly! I think that might have been true in season 4, but in season 2 they still kind of thought things might be okay. I can see them pretending there was an accident and leaving her locked in the brig. Which would seriously have been them keeping a tiger by the tail, so maybe that's why they opted against that.

I'd say go for canon. She and Susan briefly hooked up, but by the end she wasn't totally immune to Garibaldi, just hadn't done anything about it yet.

All good things. We know more about Susan and Michael in relationships, so I think the poly side of things would have to come from Talia. So maybe she's okay with encouraging more than one person at the same time to fall for her. ;) You know, though, I do feel kind of sad for her, since the others aren't telepaths, so she doesn't get to have the Do You Know What It's Like When Telepaths Make Love sort of love. Maybe she and Lyta have kinky mind sex on the side. ;)

[icepixie]

I think that might have been true in season 4, but in season 2 they still kind of thought things might be okay.

Mmmm, possibly.

I can see them pretending there was an accident and leaving her locked in the brig. Which would seriously have been them keeping a tiger by the tail, so maybe that's why they opted against that.

Heh, no kidding. Especially a telepathic tiger.

All good things. We know more about Susan and Michael in relationships, so I think the poly side of things would have to come from Talia. So maybe she's okay with encouraging more than one person at the same time to fall for her. ;)

You know with all the communalism the Corps encourages, she's gotta have some appreciation for situations beyond strict monogamy. ;)

You know, though, I do feel kind of sad for her, since the others aren't telepaths, so she doesn't get to have the Do You Know What It's Like When Telepaths Make Love sort of love. Maybe she and Lyta have kinky mind sex on the side. ;)

She can cite it as a medical need? *g* I wonder if we could fanwank that her new abilities make it possible to have that kind of Telepathic Love Meld with normals. Then again, maybe by this point, she's so sick of the Corps that she appreciates having non-telepathic lovers. (I always wonder how far Susan's talent extends, too--would it be possible for Talia to have the Telepathic Love Meld with her? But it sounds like Susan's talent is so limited that anyone who got really good at reading body language could pretty much duplicate it.)

Also, re: our other conversation about 'ship songs (particularly ones that just happen to be ones you're listening to at the moment), I'm listening to this and thinking it might be perfect for our OT3, especially if it ends badly.

[mylittleredgirl.livejournal.com]

I'm listening to it right now! :) I like it! But yes, it would have to end v. badly. Oh, god, did you ever hear that album that Claudia Christian did? There's totally a lolarious song in that about 3-ways. It kind of disturbed me when I first encountered it, but perhaps I should find it and re-listen.

You know with all the communalism the Corps encourages, she's gotta have some appreciation for situations beyond strict monogamy. ;)

I know, right?? I mean, they probably had teenagers sleeping in dorms. Experimentation seems inevitable.

[icepixie]

I'm listening to it right now! :) I like it!

Eeee! I literally discovered her THREE DAYS AGO and she's now up in my musical pantheon. That whole album is fantastic.

But yes, it would have to end v. badly.

I really, really want to vid that song right now, actually, since canon gave us a built-in bad ending. It could be from the POV of the alternate personality, and how she, through Talia, is screwing over the entire station, but especially Susan.

Oh, god, did you ever hear that album that Claudia Christian did? There's totally a lolarious song in that about 3-ways. It kind of disturbed me when I first encountered it, but perhaps I should find it and re-listen.

I heard about that album (and wasn't there also one that had her, Bill Mumy, and several other B5 folks on it?) and decided it was probably best if I stayed far, far away. Thank you for validating my choice. :)

I know, right?? I mean, they probably had teenagers sleeping in dorms. Experimentation seems inevitable.

Exactly!

[mylittleredgirl.livejournal.com]

Drat!! I hit post by accident. So here it continues.

I wonder if we could fanwank that her new abilities make it possible to have that kind of Telepathic Love Meld with normals.

Haha, not to mention, she needs two normals to do it with. Amirite?

Well, I think that she probably still gets a telepathic high from it even if it's only one way. I doubt she has any idea how to have sex without that. (Man, I hope they don't keylog us on these work computers... haha.) Though I think she does appreciate the novelty of non-telepathic lovers. I had an aborted ficlet at one point where she was musing on how strange it was to hear I love you out loud, because in all her other relationships it would have been unnecessary. But she kind of likes it. And yeah. I was never sure if "latent telepathy" was codeword for "suddenly she could become super telepathic", but I think you're probably right. She's sensitive to the telepathic activities of others but that's about it.

[icepixie]

Haha, not to mention, she needs two normals to do it with. Amirite?

So right!

Well, I think that she probably still gets a telepathic high from it even if it's only one way. I doubt she has any idea how to have sex without that. (Man, I hope they don't keylog us on these work computers... haha.)

Hee. Is there a way you can pretend this is related to work? Somehow? And yes, I think telepaths in general have a very, very different view of how intimate relationships work than normals do. (I think on some level Susan does as well, because of her mother--IMO, she's been searching for that kind of connection, whether it comes in the form of romance or friendship, since her mother died.)

I had an aborted ficlet at one point where she was musing on how strange it was to hear I love you out loud, because in all her other relationships it would have been unnecessary. But she kind of likes it.

That is a really cool concept. I would love to read that ficlet if you finish it.

And yeah. I was never sure if "latent telepathy" was codeword for "suddenly she could become super telepathic"

I don't think it was meant to be, but I also would not have put it past JMS to use that little loophole if he needed/wanted to.

but I think you're probably right. She's sensitive to the telepathic activities of others but that's about it.

Yep. That and she says in "Divided Loyalties" that she can sense strong emotion (so pretty much she's got the equivalent of mad skillz with interpreting body language, far as I can tell).