B5 Rewatch: "A Late Delivery from Avalon" and "Ship of Tears"

[icepixie]

Oh, these episodes. Not gonna lie, for me it's a bit of a slog from these to, oh, "And the Rock Cried Out," though I remember liking "Walkabout" and at least some of "Interludes and Examinations." (Unpopular fandom opinion time: Why yes, this slog I refer to does include "War Without End." Yes, yes it does. I hate those episodes, though I reserve the right to change my mind when I hit them in the rewatch. Commence boggling now.)

I mean, as a group, these seven aren't in a league with, say, S1 or the worst of S5, but they're a definite letdown from the awesome that comes before and after. (And not just in the sense that they aren't as adrenaline-filled, because I love "Ceremonies" and "Sic Transit Vir." Still good TV, but not as mindbendingly excellent, somehow.)

A Late Delivery from Avalon
Eh. Rewatching it doesn't change much from my original opinion, namely that the first incarnation of Cupid did this concept better, but some of the details were fun. Namely, Marcus and G'Kar are fun. You know Marcus has wanted to kneel in front of Arthur forever, and this is like the biggest dream come true he's ever had. I'm guessing he's meant to be a big Dickens fan as well, since this is his second reference, and I love that he quotes Pushkin at Franklin and Franklin is like yeah, I know it too, punk, and you aren't going to convince me with it.

Who wants to bet that Marcus [re]read Pushkin after he became infatuated with Susan? Heh. Also, I have this five things idea bugging me--Five Poems Marcus Cole Knows by Heart--so possibly I need to read him. One of poems I want to use is a section of the Rubiyat; I haven't decided on the others. Marcus seems very into the nineteenth century, sadly, which I'm totally not. Well, I like Coleridge and Wordsworth and Keats, none of which seem as thematically apt (I guess one could commune with nature in the hedge maze, but it doesn't seem quite the same), though perhaps I could use one of Keats's odes. "Nightingale" would work nicely for a pre-"Ceremonies" exploration of his guilt over his brother's death, while "Grecian Urn" might be good for a more lighthearted inquiry into Marcus and art/literature. Auden's "Musee des Beaux Arts" strikes me as Marcus-ish, particularly the ending, and there's a little-known Pound poem, "A Girl," that's both actually comprehensible and very Marcus--though possibly I'm drawn to these only because I am an inveterate Modernist. (There's a reason I am not allowing myself to use a Yeats poem, because then this fic would quickly become Five Yeats Poems Marcus Cole Knows by Heart. Same thing with Millay.) I'm pretty sure John Donne ought to be in that list somewhere as well, probably either "Song" or "The Sun Rising." Or, since Marcus can be very creepy where Susan is concerned, "To His Mistress Going to Bed." I feel like he'd be into Browning's monologues as well, though again, I'm pretty much not (uuuuugh, I'm totally with the Modernists in throwing off those boring Victorians). Perhaps something by Bishop too, but that may be more my like for her than anything else creeping in.

ANYWAY, so I was talking about the episode, not the reading habits of one Marcus Cole though if anyone wants to speculate with me, I welcome comments. Right. So, G'Kar getting drunk and palling around with Arthur was hilarious. Hee, thumping.

I feel like this episode might have worked better in S1, as a way of reinforcing the hell that was the Earth/Minbar war by giving us a direct/flashbacky POV on it from someone besides Sinclair. Him giving the sword to Delenn might have worked better as a way to begin working through the recriminations at that point, too. (I don't know my Arthuriana well enough to know if Delenn needed to be part-human for the analogy of her to the Lady of the Lake to work. To be honest, I'm still not sure where that comes from. But damn, it's sure ironic given "Atonement." Although pretty much everything Delenn does from S1 through that episode is ironic given "Atonement"...)

I still enjoy the sleeveless robes Sheridan and Ivanova get to wear over their uniforms. The intersection of the vertical stripe and the gold stat bars still makes it look like they're wearing crosses, like modern-day Crusaders.

Lastly, I have to look askance at the bit plot with Michael basically forcing the postmaster to bribe him. It doesn't seem very Garibaldi-ish.

Ship of Tears
Okay, I like this one pretty well too. Bester is never a bad addition to an episode. One thing that amused me was that in the notes I took as I was watching, I kept writing "Cylon" instead of "Shadow." 'Cause Carolyn was a little hybridy, with the building a nest from computer parts and then screaming and speaking less-than-intelligibly. No prophecy, though. Probably a good thing. (But oh, the thesis I could write on similarities between those shows...)

One good thing about Bester: You always know where you stand with him, i.e., you're screwed. One bad thing about Bester: You're never entirely sure how you've been screwed. At least Susan gets it right--no matter how helpful he's going to be right now, he's going to screw them over before too long. (Oh, Michael. How am I going to get through season four?) He's also refreshingly open about his views on telepaths, mundanes, and his general plans for the future.

In the B plot, we have Katsulas and Furlan rocking every line they have as Delenn tells G'Kar that they kinda sorta sacrificed his planet to the Shadows, sorry about that. Oh, G'Kar.

We also have the pretty new war room. Oooh. (Although I have to admit that I still go "SERIOUSLY?" when I see that round table, in light of the previous episode. Oh, JMS. Some day you should write that fantasy novel you're obviously itching to do.)

Comments

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

there's a little-known Pound poem, "A Girl," that's both actually comprehensible and very Marcus

I'm headed for bed, but I just wanted you to know that I will be checking up on this. If you have actually managed to find a comprehensible Pound poem... well, I will be deeply shocked, and may well have to write an apologetic note to my poetry professor. Now, Eliot... him, I admit, I adore. I mostly view Pound as the universe's way of making sure that Eliot would happen and get noticed. ♥ (And you did have to point out that Marcus would totally be the type for both Donne and Yeats, didn't you? Particularly Donne, who is... such a prat, sometimes. But yes.)

As for Auden, I can only say that I think Marcus would appreciate "Roman Wall Blues." And of course, "The More Loving One."

Although pretty much everything Delenn does from S1 through that episode is ironic given "Atonement"...

I'm still disappointed that The Boy figured out Delenn's part in the war on his own before we saw that episode. Obviously I was being too overt in my glee at her various moments of being awesome and scary and so on. I just love how that episode turns our understanding of her inside out just a bit.

The intersection of the vertical stripe and the gold stat bars still makes it look like they're wearing crosses, like modern-day Crusaders.

...I'm just going to pretend that I'd noticed that all along, shall I? o_O I knew something was niggling at me about those damned things...

One bad thing about Bester: You're never entirely sure how you've been screwed.

So very true. ♥

[icepixie]

If you have actually managed to find a comprehensible Pound poem...

Well, to be fair, "In a Station of the Metro" is certainly comprehensible, if nothing else. *snerk*

Here's a link to "A Girl." Like "Station," it benefits from being short. (Pound gets worse the longer he's allowed to go on, IMO.) I almost used it in the Marcus-pining-for-Susan fic I wrote last summer, but wound up quoting/referencing "My Love Is Like a Red, Red Rose" instead.

I mostly view Pound as the universe's way of making sure that Eliot would happen and get noticed.

Hee. I like what I've read of Eliot, which is basically "Prufrock" and "Wasteland," but I'm not as in love with it as I am with some other poets of the era. However, I agree with you on their relationship. Basically, Eliot did the mindbendy long stuff better, and HD did the imagism better, so why do we have Pound, again?

And you did have to point out that Marcus would totally be the type for both Donne and Yeats, didn't you? Particularly Donne, who is... such a prat, sometimes. But yes.

Oh, you know Marcus is all about the Renaissance, and DEFINITELY Donne. I'm sure he's got a fair few sonnets from Shakespeare and Spenser committed to memory as well. Hell, the man's probably even read all of The Faerie Queene. We didn't even manage that in my mostly-Spenser Renaissance seminar.

And while I think he probably appreciates Yeats, especially "The Second Coming" and maybe some of the early Celtic Twilight poems--perhaps also "Fascination of What's Difficult"--I'm not sure I see him being as drawn to most of the others, as many of them are Irish context-dependent. (Caveat: I mentioned that the fic would turn into Five Yeats Poems because that's what I'd do, not Marcus [same with Millay, and besides, I seem to have earmarked her for Susan, no, I have no idea either], and I like Yeats for his Irishness. My field, such as it was, in grad school was twentieth-century and contemporary Irish Lit, which, given my program and my own proclivities, basically meant I turned into a Modernist.)

I am disgracefully ill-educated about Auden. I really only know "Beaux Arts" and his Yeats elegy. I'll check those out forthwith!

"Atonement" turning our assessment of Delenn completely around is one of the best moves this series ever made. &hearts

...I'm just going to pretend that I'd noticed that all along, shall I? o_O I knew something was niggling at me about those damned things...

Hee! I don't notice much about costumes, but for some reason, that stuck out at me. Maybe 'cause the fabrics aren't crazy like they are for the alien races.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Okay, you're right. I'd forgotten how sort of sharp and pleasant and pointed Pound's short poems can be. It almost makes up for slogging through the bazillion lines and footnotes and Greek and completely incomprehensible nonsense of his longer poems. (Me, hold a grudge? Never...)

Eliot, for some reason, is the poet whose work sticks most with me out of that era - I think I must have just imprinted on him during my modern poetry class, or something. Need to read more Auden, more HD, more of everyone else from that era.

Hell, the man's probably even read all of The Faerie Queene.

He probably has, and I'm faintly jealous of that. I need to put in the effort to read more poetry.

Maybe 'cause the fabrics aren't crazy like they are for the alien races.

Ahhh, the aliens and their couch fabric. Poor aliens. ...Hell, poor actors. All that latex, hot lights, and then couch fabric on top of it all. :(

[icepixie]

Heh, I never even made it through one canto. The only Pound I was actually required to read was stuff from Blast, which is trippy and weird, but not outright awful.

Need to read more Auden, more HD, more of everyone else from that era.

PssssstMillayMillayMillayMillay... (Aside from Eavan Boland, on whom I wrote my thesis, Millay's my favorite poet ever.)

He probably has, and I'm faintly jealous of that. I need to put in the effort to read more poetry.

Just be sure to get an edition with very good footnotes...I had a good edition for class, and I still had to read the SparkNotes summary before each canto so that I could figure out what it was supposed to be about, and then interpret according to that.

Hell, poor actors. All that latex, hot lights, and then couch fabric on top of it all. :(

Lord, yes. The EarthForce uniforms didn't look too cool either, but at least they didn't have latex as well. I can't even imagine how Katsulas and the Narn actors survived. Perhaps there was really excellent air conditioning in the warehouse they filmed in.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I can't remember which poems of Pound's we read - the class was several years ago - but I vividly remember slogging through a whoooole lot of stuff that I kept having to skip to the footnotes on. Lots and lots and lots of footnotes, but the damned thing still didn't make a whole lot of sense.

Millay and Boland, then! I'll see what I've got in the collections I have, since they tend to have good footnotes, and then check out the internet after that.

Yeah, I tried (ages and ages ago) to read it straight, and... gave up pretty darned quick. Footnotes are a very good thing.

Perhaps there was really excellent air conditioning in the warehouse they filmed in.

I wish I could believe that, but, well, AC costs. On the other hand, it's far more common in Cali than in my area, so maybe there's hope!

[icepixie]

I do not envy you the Pound-slogging. At least the Spenser made sense once I'd read the summaries and footnotes.

Millaaaaaaay! She might be in some anthologies and collections, but the academy has sadly neglected her. Thankfully, the internet has picked up the slack. This one is my favorite, and also probably her most famous. (I have a scene in an unfinished fic for my AU that riffs on this poem with Susan as the narrator. Oh, Susan.)

(Okay, "First Fig" may be more famous than that sonnet, come to think of it; it's in my icon.)

Boland is contemporary (she started publishing in the 1970s), so she's not in many collections or online much. However, four of my favorites:
That the Science of Cartography Is Limited
Patchwork
The Pomegranate
Atlantis

Faerie Queene: Hey, at least you tried to read it without a class making you...I never would've bothered. Well, Book One was on my orals list, so I might have bothered, but then again there were more than a thousand freaking texts on that list, so probably it would've been one of the ones I skipped.

I wish I could believe that, but, well, AC costs. On the other hand, it's far more common in Cali than in my area, so maybe there's hope!

Heh. I've lived in places without AC (England, my first year of college in Ohio), but I still have trouble believing people regularly do without it. We certainly don't down here. :D

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Yay! I can't wait to check those out once I'm at home!

I still have trouble believing people regularly do without it. We certainly don't down here. :D

Heheheh. Yeah, my boyfriend's from Arizona, and he had quite a shock when he realized that AC here in Seattle is pretty darned rare, at least in personal homes. Thing is, you don't notice most of the time - the vast majority of the time, our temperature is somewhere between 50 and 75 F or so. In the summer, the worst we normally get is a few weeks in the 80s, maybe a few weeks in the 90s. For those few weeks, yeah, people gripe about the heat, and there's always a few folks who buy AC during that time... but then the weather switches back to 70s and voila, they've just paid how much money for something they'll use a grand total of two weeks out of the year. So the rest of us are miserable for two weeks, but get to feel smug the other 345 days of the year. ;)

[icepixie]

*drools* 75 sounds amazing right now, you have no idea. Our heat index this afternoon was 109, and has been in the 100s for weeks.

Yeah, I have no idea how people managed before AC down here, gah. If it gets above 80 outside, which it does for pretty much April-October, I can't really function without AC.

I would think Seattle would do a booming business in window air conditioners. $200 doesn't seem too bad for something that would get used two or three weeks a year for however long the machine lasts. (I had two window units in my apartment, and they managed two Tennessee summers, plus two from the tenant before me, so surely with only a little use per year, they could manage almost indefinitely.)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Yeeeeeeek. 100s is a temperature level that I've never had to deal with for more than a day or so at a time, I have to admit. Yikes.

We've been running around in the low 70s F lately, got back up to the low 80s this afternoon (just in time for me to book it from my bus-stop to the studio where we have dance lessons, joy). I think I would actually, physically melt if we got above 100 for more than maybe one day. Last year we had record highs in that general vicinity just as we were coming home from a trip to Arizona to visit The Boy's family, and OHMYGOD, it was like the whole city thought it was going to die. We're just not ready for that kind of thing.

The window versions do seem to be the popular version that gets bought during heat-waves (such as they are here), and... I have to admit, part of my blase "oh, we never have them!" thing is that it doesn't even enter my mind. I grew up in a heavily wooded area, so the concept of high heat during summer for me is a fairly new one for me, and precisely because AC units are so rare in private homes around here, it never really occurs to me that, yeah, we could probably buy one. The most I've ever done is go out and buy a fan, and then go to sleep with a wet towel or washcloth or something.

Honestly, we're just spoiled here. Relatively cool summers, relatively mild winters... lately our winters have gotten a bit more extreme, but by that I mean that there's more than a few days of snow in the whole winter, and it stays on the ground! Which would be nothing in another part of the country, but in a very hilly city where most drivers haven't got a clue how to handle snow and the city isn't prepared with plans to get rid of the snow on major roads... yeah, it's a bit exciting.

[icepixie]

Well, at least our 100s are the heat index (usually--Monday and Tuesday of this week were notable exceptions) rather than the actual temperature, which is usually 97 or 98, but it's bad enough. I went for a walk tonight, and you could actually see the humidity as a watery haze in the distance. It's like stepping into a damn sauna.

Your winters sound like our winters. We get cold (20s at night, 40s during the day) for a few months, but it only snows once or twice, and usually doesn't hang around more than a couple days. (Unless it decides we need an ice storm that lasts two weeks. But that was only those two years...) But Nashville has, like, one snowplow, and maybe enough salt for some of the interstates, plus lots of hills (even worse in Knoxville), and people, including me, definitely don't know how to drive in it. Curse of the temperate climates... *g*

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Eugh. Yeah, that's just scary. We're humid as well (though not as humid as Nashville, I'm guessing? Not sure about that...), so when it gets up there... you just don't want to move. At all. Thank goodness it doesn't stay that way... particularly since my best friend is currently in Taiwan, so I can't even get a good gripe about the heat in without her being like "oh yeah, well it's that hot and humid ALWAYS, here!" And then I feel guilty.

As far as snow and ice go, I am very grateful that I don't drive. I live at the top of a very steep hill in downtown, and if I were to try to drive that in snowy conditions... bad things would happen. I'm a bad enough driver without snow and ice (hence living in the city with our beautiful wonderful public transit system, which I love). Last year, when we had INSANE amounts of snow for Seattle, and weather that kept it laying around for weeks on end, the worst of it for me wasn't actually the snow and ice at first... at least that meant that my bus just never showed up and work got canceled. (Although, god, the number of times I fell on my butt onto the ice that winter... do not even bear telling. Hiking boots and Doc Martens, while great on trails and mud and rocks, are not good for snow. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.) No, the worst was the week after the big snow, when the stupid snow plow had finally got out to my stupid office and shoved all the snow UP ONTO THE SIDEWALKS. Very handy for the drivers, I'm sure, but I basically came up with my new conception of hell that week - trying to walk down an already-skinny sidewalk in poor visibility with traffic rushing by me, on piles of heaped-up uneven snow with patches of ice made of snow that'd been tamped down by other pedestrians.

Looking back, it was exciting and fun. At the time, I was sure I was going to die. ;)

[icepixie]

I think the average humidity is similar across a year, but your wet season is winter, yes? Ours is summer. Thus, hot. ;)

Weather conditions you're not used to suck, period, no matter where you are. I make fun of the Brits on my flist for moaning about 80F, but I try to be good-natured about it, and they do the same to me when I'm whining about 60F being cold.

Hiking boots and Doc Martens, while great on trails and mud and rocks, are not good for snow.

AHAHAHAHAHA. Oh, I sadly have personal experience with that. I had some fabulous hiking boots for undergrad in Ohio, and they did keep the snow out, but my first winter there was the worst they'd had in sixty years. (Literally, snow fell right before Thanksgiving, and I thought, "Oh, that's nice. It'll melt in a couple days, right?" It was there until FRIGGING MARCH. We hit 2.5 feet at one point in February. I thought I was going to kill myself.) Anyway, I went out to my ballroom lesson one night while wearing them, and the steps to my dorm were, unbeknownst to me, completely slicked over. I think I blacked out for a few seconds from hitting my head, and I'm pretty sure I broke my tailbone in the fall--I never got it checked out by a doctor, but it hurt to sit for about six months, and for the past seven years, it's ached for a week or so when the weather changes in autumn.

Aside from not salting the steps, the maintenance crew at school were pretty good about clearing sidewalks, etc. (they had a couple tractors fitted with snowplows; it was pretty nifty), and the school basically was the town, so I never needed to go somewhere where they'd pushed the snow from the roads onto the sidewalks. (Which looks like it would totally suck, yes, and I'm sorry you had to deal with that.) So for me it was only that fall and one my senior year, on a slick patch of road, which I took in order to avoid some treacherous steps, ironically enough. There were other slips and trips at other times of the year, but those were my own clumsiness. ;)

Looking back, it was exciting and fun. At the time, I was sure I was going to die. ;)

So much of life can be summed up in those two sentences... ;)

[icepixie]

...Okay, I might officially be in love with the two Auden poems, especially "The More Loving One." That is so Marcus, yes.

(It makes me think of Frost's "Desert Places," which Marcus might enjoy as well.)

Hmmm. I may end up making the whole thing another Marcus-pines-for-Susan fic, and title it "Five Love Poems..." You know, assuming I ever manage to actually write it, which is never a given with me...

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Eeeee, aren't they fabulous? ♥

I'd forgotten entirely about "Desert Places" - such a lovely poem! I get a bit "meh" on Frost a lot of the time, but then whenever I reread one of his poems that isn't constantly out in the public eye (I'm looking at you, "Road Less Traveled," though I cannot properly remember if that's your actual title) I remember that he's really quite interesting.

Doooooo eeeeeeet. ♥ The world needs more well-written Marcus & Susan. And Marcus is so fun to write for!

[icepixie]

I was a semi-fan of Frost--I liked the stuff in the public eye well enough, but didn't feel the need to read more--until I had to read him a bit more deeply for my orals. Then I got to liking some of the lesser-known poems. There's definitely more too him than the relative cheerfulness of "The Road Not Taken," and I was very surprised at how bleak and almost fatalist he is.

Marcus is ridiculously fun to write for. &hearts

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

A professor I was very fond of made a compelling argument that "The Road Not Taken" was meant to be read in a facetious and/or fatalistic manner. I haven't read it in a long time, but I could easily buy that, when the rest of his stuff is taken into account.

[icepixie]

oh, I like that!

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember it really working, too! I'd have to go through again, but... I don't know, I've always liked that take on it. Makes so much more sense in the context of the rest of his work... and it makes it hilarious when you see Hallmark cards and shit with the poem on it. ;)