B5 Rewatch: "And the Rock Cried Out," "Shadow Dancing," "Z'ha'dum"

[icepixie]

Before I head off to visit people for the weekend, the rest of season three!

And the Rock Cried Out...
Not much to add to my original thoughts. The overlay of that creepy gospel song onto Refa's death is still disturbing as hell (and I still hate that Big Brother genre of gospel music). I still think Delenn should be grateful that Sheridan can think like the Shadows, 'cause they're going to need that. I still kind of want to write the very amusing explanation in my head that accounts for how Vir received claw marks from Na'Toth.

Two more things:

Ohhhh, Mr. Preacher Man. I know you did not just imply that Eve was created solely so that Adam would have someone to tell his troubles to, and then compare Delenn to Eve. I know you did not just do this.

The ending can kind of be summed up like so.

Shadow Dancing
Big space battle with the united fleet! Franklin finally meets himself! Anna comes back! Delenn watches Sheridan sleep and it squicks me the hell out!

Hmmm. One of these things is not like the others. (Gaaaaaaah, the "romantic" trope of watching one's partner sleep is a wall o' no for me. Ew. Ew, ew, ew. If other people like it, great, but you will never convince me not to find it creepy.)

Hooray for everyone coming together to fight the Shadows! I thought the effects for that were shockingly well-done for a low-budget show in 1996. Way better than what they had in S1. Although the choice to show people giving orders and otherwise talking but not put the audio in did make it look a bit like a bad fanvid, just sayin'. Seriously, editors, you could've just mixed the dialogue in really low under the music and explosions and it would've been okay.

Loved how Delenn was kind of like, "John, I'm just going to pretend you didn't say anything about me staying home while you go out and fight this battle that, despite what I've let you believe, I'm totally in charge of. Let's go." Sheridan, you should try to remember that your girlfriend's way more badass than you.

Another reason Sheridan shouldn't be allowed to talk: he randomly gives up Ivanova's deep dark secret in front of Delenn. I know she trusts Delenn pretty implicitly, but I'm thinking she'd still be kinda pissed about that.

Speaking of Ivanova--see the icon. Aw. Marcus, I'm pretty sure your flirtation strategies need upgrading. Perhaps a complete overhaul, even. You could also stand to not do stupid shit like give her a compliment in Minbari and then lie about it.

(Also, when he replied to Susan's "Who wants to live forever?" with "Actually, I do!", I had to say, "Riiiiiiiiight." Come on, Marcus, no one has a bigger deathwish than you.)

I still think JMS is trying to justify all this weird crap he made up for Sheridan's dream back in S2, and not doing the greatest job.

Anyway, so there was this other plot. I find Franklin's revelations about himself quite interesting, because I tend to see him as a pretty noble and nifty kinda guy--hitchhiking on starships was a way to get knowledge, not avoid an internship; throwing away his notes on Minbari was a principled action instead of a cowardly one; resigning because he was addicted to stims was a way of preventing more harm rather than putting people in danger because they believed he could handle it. I still think they should be read this way, and his mirror image was pretty much his mind's way of trying to get him angry/desperate enough to crawl up that ladder and out into the market place. But it was a bit shocking to see this interpretation, and to realize that in his heart of hearts, Franklin thinks this about himself. But hey, if it's the kick in the head he needed...

The tourist lady at the beginning made me headdesk a bit. Subtlety, thy name is not JMS...

Z'ha'dum
Nooooooooooo, Michael!!! :(

(Yeah, okay, so at the moment Sheridan is dead as well. DON'T CARE. Michael! I've kind of not been wanting to go into S4 because this episode is pretty much the last one where I like Garibaldi, and it makes me VERY SAD to not like Garibaldi. I know it's not his fault in S4, but it's still heartbreaking. And in this episode, Sheridan was even all, "I trust you, Michael! Hint, hint!" *SADFACE*)

In other news, this is the episode where JMS reveals how much he fangirls Joseph Campbell. The hero journeys down into a depth (or across a distance or up a height, but usually it's a depth), confronts his deep(est) fear, gains something missing in his life or psyche, and comes back to share his boon with his community. Yeah, this fits the bill on pretty much all those counts (Lorien being the boon). Hell, Sheridan does both the distance and the depth by first going with Anna to Z'ha'dum, then jumping into the pit.

And the "man in the middle" confirms Sheridan's Special Destiny. Way to make him even more arrogant. The man also offers him tea, because this is also a weird iteration of the Persephone story and I'll bet that tea is pomegranate-flavored, isn't it? Don't drink it, Sheridan!

Also, is that a tower on that dark, fiery landscape Sheridan looks out over? A black tower? Perhaps called Barad-dûr? Just a thought. *cough*

It still surprises me a bit that Sheridan's reaction to future!Delenn's warning not to go to Z'ha'dum is to believe he didn't go there in that timeline. Surely he should know by now that if there's a stupid thing to be done, he's done it, and she was trying to make sure he didn't do it again. (We know he did it in that timeline as well because that event's happening in In the Beginning, right?) But at least now he can really think like the Shadows, since he's got a handle on their basic philosophy.

Speaking of Delenn...so Sheridan's pissed that she would have maybe withheld information about Anna being Shadow'd, if she'd known, which is understandable. But John, sweetie, if you think that's the only way she's been using and manipulating you, you are SADLY MISTAKEN. It's merely a symptom of a larger quality of your relationship. I mean, she loves you too, but let's be honest, that was always kind of a side benefit.

So the Shadows are actually using the "They started it!" defense to justify their actions. I never noticed that before. Haha.

Before moving on to S4, let us now have a moment to reflect on how kinda awesome, actually, it might have been had Sheridan stayed dead. We would have the war led by Susan and Delenn and probably Lyta as well, and that would've been incredible. (And then possibly Delenn might have thought, "Well, maybe SUSAN is the one the prophecy wanted me to be with!" and I might have died a little from how great that would've been.)

Comments

[aria]

I love your thoughts on Franklin! He's never been one of my favourites, for whatever reason -- I guess I'm too hung up on the aliens with really awesome plotlines? -- so I mostly took what his other self said at face value. I mean, I know Franklin is an awesome guy who doesn't actually run from everything, but I like the specific articulation you made of your alternate interpretation. :)

let us now have a moment to reflect on how kinda awesome, actually, it might have been had Sheridan stayed dead.

In my heart of hearts, I know this is REALLY AWESOME speculation, and also I am really on board with your Susan/Delenn agenda. BUT. I spent literally three years between seasons 3 and 4, completely unspoiled, agonizing over whether he survived or not, because Sheridan is my dumb baby. In light of what the story did with him afterwards, yeah, the Sheridan-staying-dead route would've been deeply interesting, but ... I irrationally am so relieved that he lives. XD

[icepixie]

Franklin! I think I latched on to the whole "hitchhiking on starships!" thing and never let go, really.

How on EARTH did you manage to go three years between S3 and S4, AND remain unspoiled?

[aria]

FIERCE DETERMINATION, that's how! To be fair, it's not like the internet is constantly yelling B5 spoilers. And Babylon 5 is the only show besides BSG where I've been invested in the plot in that specific way that meant I wanted to remain completely unspoiled.

Come to think of it, though, after three years of dithering between "Well, he fell into a bottomless pit with a spaceship crashing down after him! That's pretty deadly!" and "Yeah, but he fell into shadow and any second now he's gonna come back as Gandalf the White," it was ... slightly a let-down that he did survive? I mean, I was DELIGHTED, but at the same time ...

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Ohhhh, Mr. Preacher Man. I know you did not just imply that Eve was created solely so that Adam would have someone to tell his troubles to, and then compare Delenn to Eve. I know you did not just do this.

You caught that one, too, huh? I didn't want to comment, because I was afraid of getting shouted down with a chorus of "he didn't mean it LIKE THAT!" but... yeah. He totally did. And it made me want to strangle things. ...Preferably Mr Preach Man, followed quickly by JMS. I know you like strong women, JMS. Strong women do not exist entirely to please you and your characters. STFU.

Although the choice to show people giving orders and otherwise talking but not put the audio in did make it look a bit like a bad fanvid

THAT'S what that scene always reminds me of! I feel so much better now! I kept looking back at it, thinking "what the hell was up with my gut-wrenching distaste for the way that scene was handled? What was it, exactly, that was bothering me so much?" And you nailed it. Bad fanvid. Totally.

Loved how Delenn was kind of like, "John, I'm just going to pretend you didn't say anything about me staying home while you go out and fight this battle that, despite what I've let you believe, I'm totally in charge of. Let's go."

*Snerk* It's so true.

In other news, this is the episode where JMS reveals how much he fangirls Joseph Campbell.

So completely. And yes yes yes yes yes YES to the pomegranate tea. ♥

Also, is that a tower on that dark, fiery landscape Sheridan looks out over? A black tower? Perhaps called Barad-dûr?

Your comment about JMS and subtlety? Yeah. That again. It's not that I mind most of the references (The Boy is reading LotR for the first time right now, and recently came to me, described the brooch given to Aragorn by Galadriel, and said "...That sounds exactly like the thing Marcus wears." It's so obvious even a new LotR fan can recognize it!), it's just that... well. "We stand upon the bridge and none shall pass"? Really? And I'm not at all just bitter because I accidentally called Khazad-dum Z'ha'dum the other day, either... at least when I switch it the other way I can pretend it was intentional...

And then possibly Delenn might have thought, "Well, maybe SUSAN is the one the prophecy wanted me to be with!" and I might have died a little from how great that would've been

THIS. I can just see the wheels turning inside her twisty little Minbari brain. ♥ It's not that she doesn't love him, of course! It's just, you know... destiny has to be bigger than any two people, doesn't it? Of course it does. And, as the show is always quick to point out, faith manages. If it doesn't work out with one Human, you just have to keep trying until you get one to stick, damn it!

[icepixie]

You caught that one, too, huh? I didn't want to comment, because I was afraid of getting shouted down with a chorus of "he didn't mean it LIKE THAT!" but... yeah. He totally did.

Yep. *headdesk* The story about Emily and cleaning his apartment mitigated it somewhat, since she had a reason for helping him beyond just the fact that she's a woman and he's a man, but...not the best phrasing there, bub.

Argh, that bad fanvid moment. Thankfully it's only a couple shots at the end rather than sprinkled throughout, but still, it's such a big flaw in an otherwise extremely well-cut/well-CGIed scene.

My first time through the series, with each new LOTR reference, I kept going, "Really? REALLY? HOW ARE YOU GETTING AWAY WITH THIS?"

Back when I was watching S2 for the first time, I came up with a correspondance list, some of which is a bit laughable because I didn't know what was coming, and which also needs to be updated with Rangers, Z'ha'dum, etc.

It's not that she doesn't love him, of course! It's just, you know... destiny has to be bigger than any two people, doesn't it? Of course it does.

Exactly!

If it doesn't work out with one Human, you just have to keep trying until you get one to stick, damn it!

I now have this image of Delenn inadvertently sending, like, twenty more humans to their graves by choosing them to be the other half of the prophecy, and eventually getting to a point where people just avoid her because they don't want to die. And then Lennier tells her he'll always stand by her, and a lightbulb goes off in her head...

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

And then Lennier tells her he'll always stand by her, and a lightbulb goes off in her head...

♥♥♥ This is my canon. Always. Absolutely nothing will convince me that sometime after Sheridan dies/disappears/whatever you want to call it, an older and wiser Lennier doesn't just sort of show up wherever Delenn is. Twenty-five years or so is plenty of time to find some peace and grow up a bit, and there's no way in hell he'd leave her alone for another eighty-some years after that.

[bulleteyes.livejournal.com]

Ah, at last I find out I am not the only one who thought this about Lennier. She might as well accept whatever he offers because he will never, never, never, never go away.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I thought we were all required to believe that! Not to mention write it... (http://rivendellrose.livejournal.com/491310.html) ;)

(And if you want to see that idea done much better than I could, I highly recommend eye_of_a_cat and deborah_judge - they both have absolutely lovely Lennier/Delenn fic. ♥)

[bulleteyes.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I seldom read fic but I will bookmark these.

[bulleteyes.livejournal.com]

And on that note, may I friend you? I do not post much at the moment but I do read other journals.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the delay replying - I'd be very pleased if you would. :)

[icepixie]

Exactly! Oh, Lennier. We all know even screwing up as badly as he does can't overcome ETERNAL LOYALTY. (Except, well, in my canon, he's gonna have to share Delenn with Susan...)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

They can totally share. ♥ It'll be awesome.

[singer-shaper.livejournal.com]

Have you read vjs2259's Lennier/Susan fic?

[icepixie]

I have not. The idea is...odd, although not as odd as other ships I've contemplated...