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icepixieRumors, Bargains, and Lies
In which I ship Delenn/Neroon SO FREAKING HARD, and also Delenn/Lennier, and an OT3 between all of them as well; also, damn, but everyone in this episode is acting paternalistic.
So I am having a bit of an intellectual crisis right now. I chortle gleefully at Delenn's manipulation of, well, everything, and love her because of it. I think it's great that she basically plays everyone, all the time. Even in this episode, I quite enjoyed her little scheme with Neroon, played out for the good of her world. (They could be so epic. WHERE IS THE FIC?) I also developed great appreciation for Sinclair's similar level of sneakiness, and I cheered at various points when Londo and G'Kar snuck around and manipulated others.
Sheridan is doing pretty much the same thing in this episode when he tricks the ambassadors into demanding protection from the White Stars, and it makes me really uncomfortable. Given the above paragraph, it really shouldn't, and yet there you have it. Is it just because I kind of hate Sheridan even more than usual this season, and I'm looking for any and all reasons to dislike him and whine about how he's playing god? Is it that it goes against his brash, direct, puppyish nature? Is it something about this particular kind of manipulation? Do I, horrifyingly, only enjoy connivance when someone is doing it primarily or at least partially for his or her own good, rather than purely for what he/she thinks is the good of others? (Well, I liked Sinclair doing similar things with the League on a smaller scale in S1, so I guess that isn't it.)
I don't know. But interestingly, I feel much the same about Lennier attempting to pull the wool over Delenn's eyes for her own good. He's so sweet, but so misguided. I mean, that her own caste was willing to kill her and themselves in order to prevent what they thought was a surrender is probably information she needs to know in order to do her freaking job.
Well. Aside from the fact that I don't buy for a MINUTE that she didn't figure it out on her own, anyway. Like hell that little speech to them about their being her rock, and obviously so much smarter than the warriors, blah blah blah, was not a strongly-worded hint to them to find a way to stop what they'd done with the fuel fumes.
Actually, you know what, here's my theory: Lennier overheard the other religious caste members talking about their plot, and told Delenn, who suspected something like this might happen. While he ran off to disable the gas, she gave the You Are My Rock speech to others. In sickbay, she and Lennier staged that pointed exchange about it potentially being sabotage in order to whip the religious folks back into line. Once she left, Lennier, not wanting to give their game away, made up that bit about how he values her better world above his own (easy to do since it has some basis in truth, but not as far as he took it when he was talking to them). Because really, those two moments were waaaaay too pointed to be coincidental. Bonus: now I don't have to yell at Lennier for being foolish because it was all a lie!
Anyway, in further ways I turn this episode into crack: Delenn/Neroon. I'm serious, WHERE IS THE FIC? There appears to be none, and this makes me oh so sad. They don't exactly like each other, but they respect each other. They are saving their world together through the power of being really fucking sneaky! He dies for her! (Which, uh. I have still not quite figured out why he couldn't just leave the Starfire Wheel after handing her off to Lennier, but more on that later.) It would be angsty, and they'd snark at each other, and Neroon would be all, "The damn humans kept you away from us and caused this war," and Delenn would be like, "You could've stepped up while I was off saving the galaxy, asshole," and there would be all kinds of Minbari stuff involved, and it would be just different enough between each of their castes that they would each feel the need to make sarcastic comments on whatever it is: "Among my caste, we do it this way." / "That's 'cause you're soft." Then Lennier would maybe wander in, and because I wholeheartedly subscribe to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
rivendellrose's theory about the Minbari having three sexes* and Lennier being part of the third one, he would, ah, be incorporated. And I would clap my hands in GLEE.
Hmmm. I'm tempted to write it myself, since the internet will not satisfy my desires.
* Speaking of which, I saw another soft-pointed religious male among the conspirators. There are at least three, including Lennier and Forell!
Moments of Transition
In which it really sucks to be Lyta, but at least Zack is there for her. Also, my short-lived Ship of Awesome goes down in a literal ball of flame. As do some civilians. :(
I ship Lyta and Zack in a helpless sort of, "Oh, but they're so cute!" way. God only knows it would probably wind up looking like something Tennessee Williams dreamed up. But...Zack is so cute when he's trying to break the news about having to move as gently as possible, and you can just tell he's thinking, "If my mother wouldn't roll over in her grave at the very idea, I'd totally tell her she could stay in my quarters!" Bless.
And poor, poor Lyta. I think of all the characters--Susan excepted--she's the one I feel sorriest for. Sheridan couldn't find a way to gainfully employ her in the resistance after all she did for them? Really? Paying a bit of a salary so that you could keep this amped up telepath in your back pocket is too onerous? Instead, she's left to Bester's clutches, which is going to come back and bite everyone in the ass.
Speaking of Bester, he really does make me want to smack him in the face for pretty much this entire episode. Grrr. Get out of Michael's head! I've forgotten exactly how the Edgars/Bester plotline plays out--I seem to recall that Edgars wanted to develop a drug that would kill all telepaths, and Bester was using Garibaldi to stop him instead of doing it himself, but I don't remember all the details--but argh, Bester makes me feel like Ivanova at the end of this episode.
Moving back to Delenn's plot (in both senses of the word): Okay, so I get the reasoning behind that Starfire Wheel thingy, but I'm still allowed to think the existence of such a...magic machine, for lack of a better term, is really ridiculous, aren't I? Of course, this is a race that apparently keeps a Dry Ice Chamber of Vision-Having around all the time on the off chance someone needs to use it, not to mention has their chief governing council meet on a starship, in a darkened room, standing in some spotlights for dramatic effect, so I should probably expect nothing less.
And of course Delenn uses it to grandstand. Because not only does she not compromise, she's totally gonna die for her people even when it's unnecessary! Because she has a DESTINY! (I love her, really I do, but Delenn perhaps also has a bit of an ego problem...) Like I said above, I still don't get why Neroon had to die after getting her out of the fire. Was it just that the mechanism controlling it had ratcheted up to "incinerate" before he could leave?
Finally, Clark is a monster. But we knew that. And now we're going to kick his ass!
In which I ship Delenn/Neroon SO FREAKING HARD, and also Delenn/Lennier, and an OT3 between all of them as well; also, damn, but everyone in this episode is acting paternalistic.
So I am having a bit of an intellectual crisis right now. I chortle gleefully at Delenn's manipulation of, well, everything, and love her because of it. I think it's great that she basically plays everyone, all the time. Even in this episode, I quite enjoyed her little scheme with Neroon, played out for the good of her world. (They could be so epic. WHERE IS THE FIC?) I also developed great appreciation for Sinclair's similar level of sneakiness, and I cheered at various points when Londo and G'Kar snuck around and manipulated others.
Sheridan is doing pretty much the same thing in this episode when he tricks the ambassadors into demanding protection from the White Stars, and it makes me really uncomfortable. Given the above paragraph, it really shouldn't, and yet there you have it. Is it just because I kind of hate Sheridan even more than usual this season, and I'm looking for any and all reasons to dislike him and whine about how he's playing god? Is it that it goes against his brash, direct, puppyish nature? Is it something about this particular kind of manipulation? Do I, horrifyingly, only enjoy connivance when someone is doing it primarily or at least partially for his or her own good, rather than purely for what he/she thinks is the good of others? (Well, I liked Sinclair doing similar things with the League on a smaller scale in S1, so I guess that isn't it.)
I don't know. But interestingly, I feel much the same about Lennier attempting to pull the wool over Delenn's eyes for her own good. He's so sweet, but so misguided. I mean, that her own caste was willing to kill her and themselves in order to prevent what they thought was a surrender is probably information she needs to know in order to do her freaking job.
Well. Aside from the fact that I don't buy for a MINUTE that she didn't figure it out on her own, anyway. Like hell that little speech to them about their being her rock, and obviously so much smarter than the warriors, blah blah blah, was not a strongly-worded hint to them to find a way to stop what they'd done with the fuel fumes.
Actually, you know what, here's my theory: Lennier overheard the other religious caste members talking about their plot, and told Delenn, who suspected something like this might happen. While he ran off to disable the gas, she gave the You Are My Rock speech to others. In sickbay, she and Lennier staged that pointed exchange about it potentially being sabotage in order to whip the religious folks back into line. Once she left, Lennier, not wanting to give their game away, made up that bit about how he values her better world above his own (easy to do since it has some basis in truth, but not as far as he took it when he was talking to them). Because really, those two moments were waaaaay too pointed to be coincidental. Bonus: now I don't have to yell at Lennier for being foolish because it was all a lie!
Anyway, in further ways I turn this episode into crack: Delenn/Neroon. I'm serious, WHERE IS THE FIC? There appears to be none, and this makes me oh so sad. They don't exactly like each other, but they respect each other. They are saving their world together through the power of being really fucking sneaky! He dies for her! (Which, uh. I have still not quite figured out why he couldn't just leave the Starfire Wheel after handing her off to Lennier, but more on that later.) It would be angsty, and they'd snark at each other, and Neroon would be all, "The damn humans kept you away from us and caused this war," and Delenn would be like, "You could've stepped up while I was off saving the galaxy, asshole," and there would be all kinds of Minbari stuff involved, and it would be just different enough between each of their castes that they would each feel the need to make sarcastic comments on whatever it is: "Among my caste, we do it this way." / "That's 'cause you're soft." Then Lennier would maybe wander in, and because I wholeheartedly subscribe to
rivendellrose's theory about the Minbari having three sexes* and Lennier being part of the third one, he would, ah, be incorporated. And I would clap my hands in GLEE.Hmmm. I'm tempted to write it myself, since the internet will not satisfy my desires.
* Speaking of which, I saw another soft-pointed religious male among the conspirators. There are at least three, including Lennier and Forell!
Moments of Transition
In which it really sucks to be Lyta, but at least Zack is there for her. Also, my short-lived Ship of Awesome goes down in a literal ball of flame. As do some civilians. :(
I ship Lyta and Zack in a helpless sort of, "Oh, but they're so cute!" way. God only knows it would probably wind up looking like something Tennessee Williams dreamed up. But...Zack is so cute when he's trying to break the news about having to move as gently as possible, and you can just tell he's thinking, "If my mother wouldn't roll over in her grave at the very idea, I'd totally tell her she could stay in my quarters!" Bless.
And poor, poor Lyta. I think of all the characters--Susan excepted--she's the one I feel sorriest for. Sheridan couldn't find a way to gainfully employ her in the resistance after all she did for them? Really? Paying a bit of a salary so that you could keep this amped up telepath in your back pocket is too onerous? Instead, she's left to Bester's clutches, which is going to come back and bite everyone in the ass.
Speaking of Bester, he really does make me want to smack him in the face for pretty much this entire episode. Grrr. Get out of Michael's head! I've forgotten exactly how the Edgars/Bester plotline plays out--I seem to recall that Edgars wanted to develop a drug that would kill all telepaths, and Bester was using Garibaldi to stop him instead of doing it himself, but I don't remember all the details--but argh, Bester makes me feel like Ivanova at the end of this episode.
Moving back to Delenn's plot (in both senses of the word): Okay, so I get the reasoning behind that Starfire Wheel thingy, but I'm still allowed to think the existence of such a...magic machine, for lack of a better term, is really ridiculous, aren't I? Of course, this is a race that apparently keeps a Dry Ice Chamber of Vision-Having around all the time on the off chance someone needs to use it, not to mention has their chief governing council meet on a starship, in a darkened room, standing in some spotlights for dramatic effect, so I should probably expect nothing less.
And of course Delenn uses it to grandstand. Because not only does she not compromise, she's totally gonna die for her people even when it's unnecessary! Because she has a DESTINY! (I love her, really I do, but Delenn perhaps also has a bit of an ego problem...) Like I said above, I still don't get why Neroon had to die after getting her out of the fire. Was it just that the mechanism controlling it had ratcheted up to "incinerate" before he could leave?
Finally, Clark is a monster. But we knew that. And now we're going to kick his ass!
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Date: 2010-09-25 06:23 pm (UTC)Delenn's ego issues make me happy - she really is exactly as arrogant and overly bold as Neroon accuses her of being, & I love that about her (and him). And YES, there needs to be more fic about the 3 of them!!! I have this... Cracky AU thing in my head where the war ended with the Minbari totally overtaking Earth & never realizing about Sinclair or something (paradox, argh), & Delenn, Neroon & Lennier preside over the end of their civilization or something. I don't know, I just want an excuse to ick out Sheridan for a bit and have wacky Minbari fun time. :P
Another soft-ponted Minbari for my evidence pile, yay!!!
More later - comments on phone are a litttle tricky, & flight is boarding soonish. <3
no subject
Date: 2010-09-25 10:40 pm (UTC)And YES, there needs to be more fic about the 3 of them!!!
Correction: there needs to be any fic about the three of them. (Unless there is and I just haven't found it?)
I have this... Cracky AU thing in my head where the war ended with the Minbari totally overtaking Earth & never realizing about Sinclair or something (paradox, argh), & Delenn, Neroon & Lennier preside over the end of their civilization or something.
That might be kind of odd, though, since Delenn repented like five minutes after her outburst. But maybe in this AU she didn't? I agree that they need to be involved in something epic, though.
I don't know, I just want an excuse to ick out Sheridan for a bit and have wacky Minbari fun time. :P
I'm assuming here's a missing "k" in that sentence, but I'm also amused by the meaning of it without that letter. *g*
I realize this makes me sound like I am approximately 90, but I'm still amazed that it is possible to get INTERNET on one's PHONE. I don't even have mine set up to do text messaging. *yells at kids to get offa my lawn*
no subject
Date: 2010-09-26 04:12 am (UTC)That might be kind of odd, though, since Delenn repented like five minutes after her outburst. But maybe in this AU she didn't? I agree that they need to be involved in something epic, though.
In all embarrassing honesty, I have never really believed that Delenn really repented five minutes later. That just... doesn't make sense for her, as I imagine her - she would regret it later, I think, but I honestly can't see Delenn being all "Wait, everybody stop!" and NOT actually being able to make everyone stop by sheer force of will (as she does so many other times). Two possibilities: Either we are just getting Delenn's view of things through Delenn and it is not really how things happen (unlikely, probably, but possible), or, more likely, Delenn sort of wanted to get her people to stop the war, but only in a half-assed "oh, no, stop, really, don't... eh, whatever," kind of way, which gives her the right to say she was trying to stop them without ever having actually put in serious effort. Or, you know, I could be way the hell off-base. Because my interpretations of Delenn are always colored by the way I want her to be. But yeah, canonically, that's a problem. Presumably in this AU it would be a case of her not actually trying very hard to stop them. ...And this is starting to look suspiciously like
AUGH, the k. Yes, that's a missing k. The k key on my phone is a little... I don't even know if it's it or me, or what. But I have a tendency toward missed k's. *Headdesk* In fairness, though, I'm sure that would ick Sheridan out as well. ;)
I realize this makes me sound like I am approximately 90, but I'm still amazed that it is possible to get INTERNET on one's PHONE. I don't even have mine set up to do text messaging. *yells at kids to get offa my lawn*
OMG, I know. So, here's the thing: I got my first cellphone in 2003. I did not upgrade until just this last year. At all. So, my phone, up until just a few months ago, was one of those twee little clamshell things that really couldn't text or anything. Now I have a smart phone - a Palm Pre, which rock because they're about 1/3 the price of the iPhone and all that and have most of the same features, albeit not as many awesome apps - and it is so insane. I feel bad, because I don't use my beautiful little netbook as much anymore, because, holy crap, I can get the internet on my phone. It's insane!
...I still don't text, though. I don't like it. If I'm gonna do that, I'd rather just email. :P
no subject
Date: 2010-09-26 05:01 am (UTC)Yes. This is really what I want; Lennier would be a nice side benefit, but isn't really necessary, IMO.
In all embarrassing honesty, I have never really believed that Delenn really repented five minutes later.
Well, to be fair, it was ten years ago, and she had just been inducted into the Council, so...maybe she didn't have the influence over everyone she does by the time the series starts? That's how I'm fanwanking it, anyway. (And I think I kind of need to her to have repented once she saw how bad things were going for the humans, just for my own peace of mind...)
Your phone history is much like mine--I also got my first one in 2003, and I updated it in 2008 to...basically the color screen version of my old flip-top one. I did have an ultra-cheap phone that could text when I was in Europe, since texting was so much cheaper than voice over there and I was often trying to meet up with people in big cities, but so far that's been the only time I bothered. I, too, would rather just e-mail.
And while it's awesome in theory, I'm not convinced that internet access from my phone would be very useful to me personally. I like the idea of, say, being able to look up directions while I'm out driving (well, once I'd pulled into a parking lot) or look to see if it's going to rain, but am otherwise unsure where I'd actually use phone-based internet, especially considering how rarely I leave the house...
no subject
Date: 2010-09-26 05:19 am (UTC)Totally true - she would certainly not have been the same kind of force that she was later.
(And I think I kind of need to her to have repented once she saw how bad things were going for the humans, just for my own peace of mind...)
Heheheheh. I certainly think she would have regretted the decision later, when things really god bad - I don't think she's at all the sort to willingly commit actual genocide. I'm not even quite sure why I'm so resistant to the five-minutes-later repentance - I think it's because it sort of absolves her of responsibility. Oh, she didn't mean it, they just caught her right in the heat of the moment, and she regretted it right away! Which is possible, but at the same time, it... kind of doesn't fit how occasionally cold-blooded Delenn is about other situations. It makes it other Minbari who went mad with grief over Dukhat, and, really? Delenn was the one who was closest to him. Whatever variety of love she felt for him, I have no doubt from seeing those flashbacks in "Atonement" that she loved Dukhat with the same degree of emotion that Lennier feels for her, that same kind of dauntless, heedless, absolutely unthinking loyalty and devotion. I kind of love the idea that she was so overtaken with grief for him that she would do something as out of character for her normally as order all-out war and actually take a while - even just a few days - to really recover herself from it. It's scary as hell, but that's the kind of insane intensity of feeling that I see in the Minbari as a species, and our principle Minbari in particular. They have these wild passions that they just sort of vent and then forget about - no wonder they thought poor Marcus was repressed!
I like the idea of, say, being able to look up directions while I'm out driving (well, once I'd pulled into a parking lot) or look to see if it's going to rain, but am otherwise unsure where I'd actually use phone-based internet, especially considering how rarely I leave the house...
It's totally one of those things where I can see how it would make no sense at all for a lot of people. For me... I bus a lot. And after the umpteen-billionth time getting lost or having the buses do something unexpected or trying to meet up with someone but then they email me after I've already left and plans change or something crazy like that, or I wander around on a walk for too long and manage to lose my bus-stops and can't figure out where the heck I am, it's a really nice thing to have Google maps, the bus-schedules and trip-planner, and all that stuff right at my fingertips. Plus, I got sick of getting in situations where I'd only brought one book (or, god help me, forgotten a book) and then got stuck waiting an extra hour for my bus because there's a baseball game or something. So... it's a very frivolous thing, but since I don't spend money on a car (or the parking for one, which in my neighborhood is astronomical), I decided it was worth it.
Also, it encourages me to be more careful about actually having my phone CHARGED and ON, which I was always bad about with my old phone. :P
no subject
Date: 2010-09-26 05:14 pm (UTC)They have these wild passions that they just sort of vent and then forget about - no wonder they thought poor Marcus was repressed!
Heh. The Vulcans of B5! And yes, poor, poor Marcus.
Ooooh, I can see how a internet phone would be very handy for bus-related things. I would probably want one if I rode a lot of public transportation. (I would also have bought an e-ink reader by now if I could justify it with a bus or train commute. WANT.)