Fringe 4.04: "Subject 9"
Oct. 14th, 2011 09:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
icepixiePETER! PETER'S BACK! OMG YAY!
He took his sweet time getting here, too. Did anyone in the audience not know the glowy energy cloud was Peter? I was spoiled that he was coming back in this episode, but I think even had I not been I would've figured it out. I was so hoping they'd break the usual formula of forward steps on the mytharc going at the end of an episode, but alas, no.
Then again, a fairly obvious case gave them latitude to give us all kinds of revelations about the amberverse. Like the fact that Nina has apparently been some kind of mother figure to Olivia at least SINCE HIGH SCHOOL, HOLY SHIT. Bwahah, apparently I am a friggin' prophet, because I wrote this yesterday: "Given the rest of the show, a line [in the pilot] that struck me now but didn't back then was Nina's 'I would say this to my own daughter: Be careful. And good luck.' Coupled with her insistence in "Peter" that Blue!Peter was important to her, I wonder if there's more to be told in regards to her relationship with the Bishops and maybe even Olivia."
Theory: When Olivia ran away from the Cortexiphan trials(!!!), she wound up going to Nina, who didn't know exactly what was going on, but once she found out tried to protect Olivia as best she could and eventually got the trials shut down. (Hence why Walter, hilariously, referred to her as a "viper" and claimed her words "rattled around [his] inner ear like razor blades." Also why she could say, "Walter's said many things to me over the years, but 'thank you' was never one of them.") Though given her apparent callousness to the shareholders(?) in that meeting about how Massive Dynamic just makes the technology and doesn't care what horrors its buyers commit with it, that doesn't really ring true. Maybe Olivia's mother simply died when she was a kid and somehow Nina wound up fostering her? I have no idea, but I LOVE THIS DEVELOPMENT. I always wanted Nina to be more connected to Peter and/or Olivia, and this makes me VERY HAPPY. (Especially because she still seems kind of evil! I love ambiguously evil supporting characters!)
Speaking of the Cortexiphan trials...so they didn't run into Nick Lane and the other Cortexi-kids in this universe? Olivia doesn't have her powers anymore?! But but but OLIVIA'S POWERS! They were so awesome! Amber timeline, I hate you for taking them away from her!
ETA: Further reflection, and remembering of important info from S1, suggests that David Robert Jones had to "activate" Olivia's powers. Maybe she has them, but they're still dormant. Hmmm.
(My original theory for the season was that by midseason, everyone would remember everything from the Blue/Red timeline, but the actions of that timeline would still never have happened. So our characters would be walking around with two sets of memories, and we would have things like Fauxlivia remembering Henry but never being able to have him back, which is horrible but also exactly the kind of awful thing the universes like to inflict on Olivias, and the kind of thing the writers would do to us. But, two things: one, it occurs to me that given the butterfly effect, a lot more people than Olivia, Walter, et al. will be walking around with different memories, which seems like it would cause a giant panic; and two, a universe without an Olivia who can cross over and use telekinesis is not one I want to watch a show about, so I really hope they don't leave her without them forever.)
Some other things:
I didn't get a good look at the picture from Olivia's apartment at the beginning, only enough to tell it was a woman and a young girl, and assumed it was her and Ella. But given the revelation about Nina, could it have been Nina and her as a child?
Bwahahaha! Oh, Olivia, I love you for trying to shoot the floaty glowing energy cloud.
Olivia having to remind Walter she works in the lab? SADDEST THING EVER. :(
"He got the idea from The Matrix." Hee.
First hint that the Cortexiphan trials went down very differently: Olivia remembers the fire she started.Also she doesn't send Walter a deathglare when she mentions it.
This universe is really, really good to Astrid. She gets lines! And things to do! Can we keep this aspect of the Amberverse?
I have to admit, while I noticed Lincoln wasn't there, I didn't miss him at all. Amber!Lincoln, you and your hipster glasses are cute, but I just can't get interested in you. I much prefer Astrid as Olivia's partner.
Hmmm, so if Walter's repeating Bell's speech about Olivia always being the strongest practically verbatim, does that mean she never got to hear it from Bell? She never crossed over at the end of S1?
Nina being all CEOish = win.
Astrid didn't even know about the Cortexiphan? OMG.
"Really, 'Claire'? That doesn't even start with an A!" Awwww. (Even cuter: Jasika Nicole's partner's name is Claire.)
"We got here and the door was unlocked." Heh heh.
Oh, Walter. You make germophobia so sad. :(
Elizabeth killed herself earlier in this timeline. Pity, I was hoping she'd still be around. :(
Ohhhhhh, Walter and Olivia sharing root beer floats all father/daughtery made my heart grow three sizes. And then the show smushed it back to size with the whole sending Walter back to the mental institute thing. I am sort of horrified that there's any Olivia who would even consider doing that. (And oh, Walter saying he knows they aren't family, but... MY HEART, YOU ARE BREAKING IT.)
Huh, Pop Tarts must be the new sponsor this year. Walter was very obviously eating one at the beginning of the episode, and there was a long, loving commercial for them here.
So...the doses of Cortexiphan were smaller in this timeline? How did Peter dying change that?
I really liked this Cortexi-kid. I hope he comes back someday.
Awww, Olivia had a feeling that Peter wanted her help. He did! Now she just needs to remember him.
Okay, the entire world knew this episode had to end with "Who are you?", but I'm still glad I predicted it in my fic. *g*
He took his sweet time getting here, too. Did anyone in the audience not know the glowy energy cloud was Peter? I was spoiled that he was coming back in this episode, but I think even had I not been I would've figured it out. I was so hoping they'd break the usual formula of forward steps on the mytharc going at the end of an episode, but alas, no.
Then again, a fairly obvious case gave them latitude to give us all kinds of revelations about the amberverse. Like the fact that Nina has apparently been some kind of mother figure to Olivia at least SINCE HIGH SCHOOL, HOLY SHIT. Bwahah, apparently I am a friggin' prophet, because I wrote this yesterday: "Given the rest of the show, a line [in the pilot] that struck me now but didn't back then was Nina's 'I would say this to my own daughter: Be careful. And good luck.' Coupled with her insistence in "Peter" that Blue!Peter was important to her, I wonder if there's more to be told in regards to her relationship with the Bishops and maybe even Olivia."
Theory: When Olivia ran away from the Cortexiphan trials(!!!), she wound up going to Nina, who didn't know exactly what was going on, but once she found out tried to protect Olivia as best she could and eventually got the trials shut down. (Hence why Walter, hilariously, referred to her as a "viper" and claimed her words "rattled around [his] inner ear like razor blades." Also why she could say, "Walter's said many things to me over the years, but 'thank you' was never one of them.") Though given her apparent callousness to the shareholders(?) in that meeting about how Massive Dynamic just makes the technology and doesn't care what horrors its buyers commit with it, that doesn't really ring true. Maybe Olivia's mother simply died when she was a kid and somehow Nina wound up fostering her? I have no idea, but I LOVE THIS DEVELOPMENT. I always wanted Nina to be more connected to Peter and/or Olivia, and this makes me VERY HAPPY. (Especially because she still seems kind of evil! I love ambiguously evil supporting characters!)
Speaking of the Cortexiphan trials...so they didn't run into Nick Lane and the other Cortexi-kids in this universe? Olivia doesn't have her powers anymore?! But but but OLIVIA'S POWERS! They were so awesome! Amber timeline, I hate you for taking them away from her!
ETA: Further reflection, and remembering of important info from S1, suggests that David Robert Jones had to "activate" Olivia's powers. Maybe she has them, but they're still dormant. Hmmm.
(My original theory for the season was that by midseason, everyone would remember everything from the Blue/Red timeline, but the actions of that timeline would still never have happened. So our characters would be walking around with two sets of memories, and we would have things like Fauxlivia remembering Henry but never being able to have him back, which is horrible but also exactly the kind of awful thing the universes like to inflict on Olivias, and the kind of thing the writers would do to us. But, two things: one, it occurs to me that given the butterfly effect, a lot more people than Olivia, Walter, et al. will be walking around with different memories, which seems like it would cause a giant panic; and two, a universe without an Olivia who can cross over and use telekinesis is not one I want to watch a show about, so I really hope they don't leave her without them forever.)
Some other things:
I didn't get a good look at the picture from Olivia's apartment at the beginning, only enough to tell it was a woman and a young girl, and assumed it was her and Ella. But given the revelation about Nina, could it have been Nina and her as a child?
Bwahahaha! Oh, Olivia, I love you for trying to shoot the floaty glowing energy cloud.
Olivia having to remind Walter she works in the lab? SADDEST THING EVER. :(
"He got the idea from The Matrix." Hee.
First hint that the Cortexiphan trials went down very differently: Olivia remembers the fire she started.
This universe is really, really good to Astrid. She gets lines! And things to do! Can we keep this aspect of the Amberverse?
I have to admit, while I noticed Lincoln wasn't there, I didn't miss him at all. Amber!Lincoln, you and your hipster glasses are cute, but I just can't get interested in you. I much prefer Astrid as Olivia's partner.
Hmmm, so if Walter's repeating Bell's speech about Olivia always being the strongest practically verbatim, does that mean she never got to hear it from Bell? She never crossed over at the end of S1?
Nina being all CEOish = win.
Astrid didn't even know about the Cortexiphan? OMG.
"Really, 'Claire'? That doesn't even start with an A!" Awwww. (Even cuter: Jasika Nicole's partner's name is Claire.)
"We got here and the door was unlocked." Heh heh.
Oh, Walter. You make germophobia so sad. :(
Elizabeth killed herself earlier in this timeline. Pity, I was hoping she'd still be around. :(
Ohhhhhh, Walter and Olivia sharing root beer floats all father/daughtery made my heart grow three sizes. And then the show smushed it back to size with the whole sending Walter back to the mental institute thing. I am sort of horrified that there's any Olivia who would even consider doing that. (And oh, Walter saying he knows they aren't family, but... MY HEART, YOU ARE BREAKING IT.)
Huh, Pop Tarts must be the new sponsor this year. Walter was very obviously eating one at the beginning of the episode, and there was a long, loving commercial for them here.
So...the doses of Cortexiphan were smaller in this timeline? How did Peter dying change that?
I really liked this Cortexi-kid. I hope he comes back someday.
Awww, Olivia had a feeling that Peter wanted her help. He did! Now she just needs to remember him.
Okay, the entire world knew this episode had to end with "Who are you?", but I'm still glad I predicted it in my fic. *g*
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-10-16 04:12 am (UTC)YAAAAYYY!!! I thought he wouldn't be back until the next episode! Which... he kind of isn't. But still! Yay!
Did anyone in the audience not know the glowy energy cloud was Peter?
How did Olivia go from, "No dreams about Mystery Man, but COINCIDENTALLY I was visited by a glowy blue cloud!" to "Oh, a cortexikid from twenty-five years ago is a MUCH MORE LIKELY explanation!!" Oh plot, and your necessities. And does the team usually go for an instant "Weird thing? DESTROY DESTROY DESTROY!!!" vibe? Because that felt off.
Like the fact that Nina has apparently been some kind of mother figure to Olivia at least SINCE HIGH SCHOOL, HOLY SHIT.
SO UNEXPECTED! SO EXCITING!
ran away from the Cortexiphan trials(!!!)
So, how did Olivia leave the trials originally? Because the trials were still going in 1985 in Bluniverse, right, and Walter didn't get committed until the fire in... 1991? Did they ever fill in those blanks?
once she found out tried to protect Olivia as best she could and eventually got the trials shut down.
I could get behind this!
Hence why Walter, hilariously, referred to her as a "viper" and claimed her words "rattled around [his] inner ear like razor blades."
Odd how the Walter/Bell antagonistic relationship has kind of transferred over to Walter/Nina in the Amberverse. I wonder if Nina ending the trials ended up giving her more power and influence in Massive Dynamic?
(Especially because she still seems kind of evil! I love ambiguously evil supporting characters!)
Continuing Evil Nina FTW!
But but but OLIVIA'S POWERS! They were so awesome!
So awesome! Yeah, I'm thinking she never got activated in this timeline. BUT when she was expositing to Astrid, she gave three examples of cortexipowers that were all her own: telekinesis, pyrokinesis, and crossing over. Or maybe she only had them in little spurts under the small doses of cortexiphan? And they never came back after the trials? Also, there's no Peter to give her the right conditions to make them work.
given the butterfly effect, a lot more people than Olivia, Walter, et al. will be walking around with different memories
Eh, most of the special knowledge on this show is restricted to the main characters, so I'd assume memories of the Bluniverse would likewise only come back to the inner circle, and the general populace would be unaffected.
a universe without an Olivia who can cross over and use telekinesis is not one I want to watch a show about
Awwwwww. And that show would not be Fringe, so I don't think you have to worry.
Bwahahaha! Oh, Olivia, I love you for trying to shoot the floaty glowing energy cloud.
Pumping astral projections full of lead: a solution that only Olivia would come up with. (That car made a pretty solid thunk when it hit the cloud. Was Peter injured?)
"He got the idea from The Matrix." Hee.
So... in this universe, did Olivia not cross over to the WTC at the end of S1, and come flying back through her windshield at the beginning of S2? Because Walter used this same general camera setup with frogs to try and recreate her crossing then.
Olivia remembers the fire she started.
So in running away she skipped the part where Walter erased her and Peter's childhood memories? (BECAUSE THAT TOTALLY HAPPENED OR ELSE CANON MAKES NO SENSE GRR.)
Even cuter: Jasika Nicole's partner's name is Claire.
Awwww. But I thought it was a Freudian slip, considering how St. Claire's was on his mind.
And oh, Walter saying he knows they aren't family, but... MY HEART, YOU ARE BREAKING IT.
I KNOW. I was all, "But he IS family! Walter, you're family! Olivia, tell him he's family! Olivia! Olivia, WHY AREN'T YOU SAYING IT???" This is not the Olivia I want to see the rest of the season! Remember when Peter ran away to the Redverse and Walter had a freakout in the grocery store and Olivia was all, "There is NO WAY you are going back to St. Claire's I would never let that happen!"? D: D: D:
So...the doses of Cortexiphan were smaller in this timeline? How did Peter dying change that?
Maybe it made Walter more cautious?
TWO WEEKS TIL THE NEXT ONE WHYYYYYY??
Part 1
Date: 2011-10-16 08:11 pm (UTC)I actually thought he would come back sooner than five minutes from the end. First, because that's when you expect him to come back, and second, because there were promo shots of him and Olivia in the hospital room, and I figured if that was the last shot of the episode, they surely wouldn't release them. But alas, no.
How did Olivia go from, "No dreams about Mystery Man, but COINCIDENTALLY I was visited by a glowy blue cloud!" to "Oh, a cortexikid from twenty-five years ago is a MUCH MORE LIKELY explanation!!"
Yeah, that was...special. I guess someone had to carry the idiot ball this week, though...
And does the team usually go for an instant "Weird thing? DESTROY DESTROY DESTROY!!!" vibe? Because that felt off.
Yeah, I was concerned about that as well. It seems far more in line with Walter's usual MO to want to capture and study it. (Though they did try to kill the fungus last week. Maybe the Amberverse is bloodthirstier?)
SO UNEXPECTED! SO EXCITING!
"Wait, where's my jaw? Oh, it's on the floor. And it's not coming back up any time soon."
So, how did Olivia leave the trials originally? Because the trials were still going in 1985 in Bluniverse, right, and Walter didn't get committed until the fire in... 1991? Did they ever fill in those blanks?
I have extremely, extremely vague memories of the trials ending when Olivia was nine, which would've been 1987, but I have no idea why I think that. (Perhaps I'm confusing it with her shooting her stepfather when she was nine.) I guess Walter and Bell stopped the trials at some point in Blueverse, and just discharged Olivia normally. Or maybe shooting at her stepfather meant her family moved on from Jacksonville and she got out that way.
I could get behind this!
That would be interesting and would explain many things! But at the same time, it seems un-Ninaish. Maybe I'm not giving her enough credit.
Odd how the Walter/Bell antagonistic relationship has kind of transferred over to Walter/Nina in the Amberverse.
Was there Walter/Bell antagonism? I missed that, somehow...
I wonder if Nina ending the trials ended up giving her more power and influence in Massive Dynamic?
Well, she was pretty much running the company until Walter inherited it in S3, but apparently he hasn't inherited it now. Maybe she did?
when she was expositing to Astrid, she gave three examples of cortexipowers that were all her own: telekinesis, pyrokinesis, and crossing over.
Sneaky writers!
Also, there's no Peter to give her the right conditions to make them work.
True, true. (Okay, now I want the scene where they're just chilling in the lab and she can suddenly move things with her mind. And he's all, "SEE? I've been trying to tell you about this! Now do you remember me?")
Part 2
Date: 2011-10-16 08:13 pm (UTC)I could see them resorting to this for simplicity, but there are people like Peter's old associates in the Middle East who would be wandering around very confused, I would think...
Awwwwww. And that show would not be Fringe, so I don't think you have to worry.
Hopefully not!
Pumping astral projections full of lead: a solution that only Olivia would come up with.
And Scully, maybe...
(That car made a pretty solid thunk when it hit the cloud. Was Peter injured?)
I was worried when I heard that thunk!
So... in this universe, did Olivia not cross over to the WTC at the end of S1, and come flying back through her windshield at the beginning of S2? Because Walter used this same general camera setup with frogs to try and recreate her crossing then.
Given that she seemed to be hearing Walter's exposition about how she was always the strongest in the Cortexiphan trials for the first time, I'm thinking no. It sounds like the first time she went Over There was when Fauxlivia kidnapped her and took over her life until she could find the pieces of the Machine that Walternate wanted.
So in running away she skipped the part where Walter erased her and Peter's childhood memories? (BECAUSE THAT TOTALLY HAPPENED OR ELSE CANON MAKES NO SENSE GRR.)
It sounds like no one got any brainwashing in the Amberverse! Cameron James/Mark Little remembered her pretty easily, anyway. I'm guessing she actually finished the job of running away she started in "Subject 13," when Peter found her in the field of tulips and convinced her to go back.
Awwww. But I thought it was a Freudian slip, considering how St. Claire's was on his mind.
It might've been both...
This is not the Olivia I want to see the rest of the season!
Me neither!
Remember when Peter ran away to the Redverse and Walter had a freakout in the grocery store and Olivia was all, "There is NO WAY you are going back to St. Claire's I would never let that happen!"? D: D: D:
I want this Olivia back. *sniffle*
Maybe it made Walter more cautious?
Perhaps?
TWO WEEKS TIL THE NEXT ONE WHYYYYYY??
Stupid baseball!
no subject
Date: 2011-10-17 03:35 am (UTC)Awww. I thought it was a reference to St. Claire's (Freudian slip ahoy!), but that's sweet.
Re: Olivia's powers - they seem like they have set it up so they can bring back more cortexiphan kids, which suggest Olivia will be exploring her powers more as well. \o/!
Hmmm, so if Walter's repeating Bell's speech about Olivia always being the strongest practically verbatim, does that mean she never got to hear it from Bell? She never crossed over at the end of S1?
HOLY SHIT WAIT. Between that and not having to rescue Peter, does this mean Bell is alive in this universe? I THINK IT DOES.
Re: Part 1
Date: 2011-10-17 04:05 am (UTC)Heh, but it is so effective.
Maybe the Amberverse is bloodthirstier?
Yeah, last week's "BURN IT!" seemed... harsh. Poor Amberlivia.
"Wait, where's my jaw? Oh, it's on the floor. And it's not coming back up any time soon."
"It actually seems pretty happy down there."
Or maybe shooting at her stepfather meant her family moved on from Jacksonville and she got out that way.
Hm, that could be.
Was there Walter/Bell antagonism? I missed that, somehow...
Once he came back in person, he and Walter were constantly sniping at each other. I don't remember why, exactly. Jealousy on Walter's part?
Well, she was pretty much running the company until Walter inherited it in S3, but apparently he hasn't inherited it now. Maybe she did?
I got the impression that she was always sort of a regent figure in the Bluniverse, with an image of "just holding down the fort" until Bell came back, despite however much she was actually controlling. In the Amberverse, she seems to have a much more overt power.
And he's all, "SEE? I've been trying to tell you about this! Now do you remember me?"
Haha, nope, and she pulls her gun on the floaty objects. because it's Olivia!
Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-17 04:12 am (UTC)But they could just go along with their unbroken Amber timelines, and none the wiser! And... incidentally, Peter would not have mobsters still vaguely after him?
And Scully, maybe...
True!
It sounds like the first time she went Over There was when Fauxlivia kidnapped her and took over her life until she could find the pieces of the Machine that Walternate wanted.
But... how did she get Over There in the first place? She didn't follow Peter over, and she didn't meet the cortexikids to help her cross... are we even sure she took Fauxlivia's place? Or was she drugged up in a basement somewhere for eight weeks?
DEAR WRITERS WOULD YOU PLEASE JUST DRAW US A DIAGRAM OR SOMETHING?
I'm guessing she actually finished the job of running away she started in "Subject 13," when Peter found her in the field of tulips and convinced her to go back.
Ohhhhh right!
I want this Olivia back. *sniffle*
I want all of the Bishop trio back together! They're so sad and broken now!
Stupid baseball!
It's baseball's fault?? Rar!
no subject
Date: 2011-10-17 04:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-10-17 06:45 pm (UTC)I think it was probably both; maybe they'd been wanting to do it for a while, and this was an especially opportune moment.
Re: Olivia's powers - they seem like they have set it up so they can bring back more cortexiphan kids, which suggest Olivia will be exploring her powers more as well. \o/!
This is true! Though part of me wonders how they can make it different enough from her discovery of her powers back in Blueverse to be interesting. I'm sure they'll find a way.
HOLY SHIT WAIT. Between that and not having to rescue Peter, does this mean Bell is alive in this universe? I THINK IT DOES.
...MAYBE! Although Leonard Nimoy doesn't do anything but voice acting anymore, so I'm not sure how they can use that to their advantage.
Re: Part 1
Date: 2011-10-17 06:48 pm (UTC)"It's just going to stay there every Friday night."
Once he came back in person, he and Walter were constantly sniping at each other. I don't remember why, exactly. Jealousy on Walter's part?
"Why are you not crazy like meeeeeeee?"
"Uh, you told me to take out pieces of your brain."
"Oh. Right."
I got the impression that she was always sort of a regent figure in the Bluniverse, with an image of "just holding down the fort" until Bell came back, despite however much she was actually controlling. In the Amberverse, she seems to have a much more overt power.
Perhaps...
Haha, nope, and she pulls her gun on the floaty objects. because it's Olivia!
"Obviously they are evil and should be shot!"
"You are NOT the Olivia I used to know."
Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-17 06:55 pm (UTC)Always a plus...
But... how did she get Over There in the first place? She didn't follow Peter over, and she didn't meet the cortexikids to help her cross... are we even sure she took Fauxlivia's place? Or was she drugged up in a basement somewhere for eight weeks?
It sounds like Fauxlivia used one of the metal rods to get over to Our Side, grab Ourlivia, take her back and put her in a cell where she remained for the entire time she was Over There. Then Faux came back over, took Ourlivia's place so she could get the Machine parts, and went home when she had them. (Hilariously, I think Walter said she was only there for two weeks, which means that in the Blue timeline, Faux took an extra six weeks just kinda hanging out and screwing up Ourlivia's personal life.)
It sounds like Ourlivia has never crossed over under her own power before, so I don't know how she got back here. Maybe Walternate sent her back as some kind of taunt?
DEAR WRITERS WOULD YOU PLEASE JUST DRAW US A DIAGRAM OR SOMETHING?
PLEASE?
I want all of the Bishop trio back together! They're so sad and broken now!
Thiiiiis! (P.S., I love that they're the "Bishop trio." Because Olivia is totally part of the family, even though she kept her name when she married Peter in the future!)
It's baseball's fault?? Rar!
Fox and baseball go back a long way. I remember strange fall hiatuses when XF was on, even.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-17 07:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-10-18 12:29 am (UTC)I vote for that - they don't seem like the kind of writers who just do shit for fun (mostly). They made it *character relevant*. ♥
part of me wonders how they can make it different enough from her discovery of her powers back in Blueverse
See, I almost feel like we haven't seen enough! She was activated under duress, and only explored them under extreme circumstances - Jacksonville, traveling to the other side to rescue Peter. I'd love to see her voluntarily explore them and gain real control without needing fear - like she had in the future. There are many layers left to get into. (Olivia Dunham: she's like an onion of awesome!)
Although Leonard Nimoy doesn't do anything but voice acting anymore
Well, he's 'retired' before ;) And he can always make phone calls from the other side or something!
Re: Part 1
Date: 2011-10-18 03:28 am (UTC)"But but but I wanted to be the Bill Gates of this universe!"
"You are NOT the Olivia I used to know."
*sadface all around*
no subject
Date: 2011-10-18 04:11 am (UTC)So many ♥!
I'd love to see her voluntarily explore them and gain real control without needing fear - like she had in the future.
Hmmm. I hadn't thought of it that way, but I could see how that would be interesting. Although I feel like this Olivia would be even less keen on testing her powers than Bluelivia was; given the way the recent Amber cases have gone down, with attempts to kill the fungus and the blue glowy energy cloud rather than the capture-and-study approach I feel like Blue!Team would've used, Amberlivia just seems...less open to possibility? For good reason, it seems, since it looks like she just hasn't had as many mindscrewy experiences that directly affect her as Bluelivia has.
But if they do let her explore her powers without fear, that would be cool.
And he can always make phone calls from the other side or something!
Bwahahaha! I'd like to see that.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-18 10:19 pm (UTC)Ooh, I hadn't really considered that. Yeah, they have been a little shoot-first lately, haven't they? It could be lazy plot writing in favor of characterization, but I like to give them extra credit ;) So I wonder if it's inherent to Amberlivia for backstory reasons, or if she's just more worn out and closed off without Peter? Ungh, want new episooooooodes. The Nina thing this week suggests they have a lot more alterations up their sleeves.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-19 01:27 am (UTC)I think they probably do intend it, at least a little.
So I wonder if it's inherent to Amberlivia for backstory reasons, or if she's just more worn out and closed off without Peter?
I'm thinking both. Amberlivia shot her stepfather to death, so maybe she's just more used to making bad things go away permanently. And without Peter, she never had a lot of the crazy things that happened to Bluelivia happen to her, from crossing over to find him at the end of S2 to dealing with her double dating the guy she loves. Plus he seems pretty key to making her powers work at all (or at least the particular kind of love and security he can provide as the counterpoint to fear in the situations where she uses her powers seems important), and there were some vague implications that he has some kind of calming power over her back in S1.
So maybe her being more closed off to possibility is a combination of personality, lack of opportunity to experience the weird, and lack of an anchor--and Peter was definitely Blue!Team's heart/anchor--to make her feel more secure in letting the weird into her life.
Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-22 04:02 am (UTC)grab Ourlivia, take her back and put her in a cell where she remained for the entire time she was Over There.
...I'm glad we didn't see that S2. That would've been boring. Also a bit unOlivia.
I think Walter said she was only there for two weeks
Oh no, did I miss some exposition somewhere? Perhaps in the piles and piles of amber!infodump? Curse you, writers, for assuming I want to think when I watch tv!
Faux took an extra six weeks just kinda hanging out and screwing up Ourlivia's personal life.
Bwah! But she did seem to have a tricky time of it, prodding the Bishops toward the machine part she needed. And maybe Red!Faux took the extra time because she felt she needed longer to insinuate herself and get cozy? Because Amber!Faux had no close relationships to worm her way into? (I like how your headcanon gives Amberlivia a nicer childhood, because at least then the poor girl has some advantage. Ps forgot to ask: when did Blue!livia's mother die? When Olivia was 15? And Rachel is the younger sister, yes?)
Maybe Walternate sent her back as some kind of taunt?
Maybe just as a mass balance for when Fauxlivia went back to Pinkverse?
I love that they're the "Bishop trio." Because Olivia is totally part of the family, even though she kept her name when she married Peter in the future!
You could almost call them the Dunham trio, since Olivia is the unofficial leader. But yes, they are an awesome family, and they need to remember that, stat!
no subject
Date: 2011-10-22 04:21 am (UTC)Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-22 05:44 am (UTC)SO MUCH ADORABLE IN THERE.
...I'm glad we didn't see that S2. That would've been boring. Also a bit unOlivia.
I can't remember if they actually said that Olivia broke herself out and crossed back over or if it's just something I made up in my head, but I'm going with it.
Oh no, did I miss some exposition somewhere? Perhaps in the piles and piles of amber!infodump? Curse you, writers, for assuming I want to think when I watch tv!
It was during "One Night in October," when Walter was infodumping to AmberLincoln about the Machine and the other side. The transcript just has it as "for weeks," though, so maybe I misheard.
But she did seem to have a tricky time of it, prodding the Bishops toward the machine part she needed.
Hmmm, perhaps, perhaps. Assuming I even heard it correctly, anyway. (But I feel like any longer than two weeks is pushing believability for Ourlivia not breaking herself out of Walternate's prison, so I'm gonna go with it.)
And maybe Red!Faux took the extra time because she felt she needed longer to insinuate herself and get cozy? Because Amber!Faux had no close relationships to worm her way into?
AWWWWW! AWWWWW! AWWWWW! It's probably true! Nina's in NYC, Rachel and Ella are in Chicago...
(I like how your headcanon gives Amberlivia a nicer childhood, because at least then the poor girl has some advantage.
Yeah, without that, the Amberverse is DEAD TO ME. (Well, that and Astrid getting more to do. But NOTHING ELSE.)
Ps forgot to ask: when did Blue!livia's mother die? When Olivia was 15? And Rachel is the younger sister, yes?)
In "Olivia," Olivia says she was fourteen when her mother died. I figured it was probably similar for Amberverse. I don't think the show has ever said specifically which of the two sisters is older, but OBVIOUSLY it's Olivia, I mean REALLY. She has "martyred older sister" written all over her. ;)
Maybe just as a mass balance for when Fauxlivia went back to Pinkverse?
Assuming Olivia didn't break her own self out of prison, this makes considerable sense...
(Okay, I am somewhat disturbed that I even managed to think of this, but...you know that experiment some crackpot doctor did about a hundred years ago, weighing people right before and right after they died to measure the weight of the soul? Can't you just imagine Brandonate deciding it would be grand to try and prove it by killing Ourlivia before they used her for the mass exchange, and setting various small objects next to her to see if any of them were pulled into the other universe?)
You could almost call them the Dunham trio, since Olivia is the unofficial leader.
YES! Peter should change his name when they get married! *g*
But yes, they are an awesome family, and they need to remember that, stat!
Come onnnnn, Blueverse! Come back to us!
no subject
Date: 2011-10-22 05:48 am (UTC)Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-22 08:21 pm (UTC)IT'S SQUISHING OUT AROUND THE EDGES.
I can't remember if they actually said that Olivia broke herself out and crossed back over or if it's just something I made up in my head, but I'm going with it.
I don't remember, either. I have a feeling that a rewatch of this season as a complete thing will be enlightening...
(But I feel like any longer than two weeks is pushing believability for Ourlivia not breaking herself out of Walternate's prison, so I'm gonna go with it.)
Heh, no Olivia in any universe would take longer than two weeks to unkidnap herself!
AWWWWW! AWWWWW! AWWWWW!
Makes you wonder how Amberlivia went from a (presumably) happier childhood to bleaker adulthood. : (
Yeah, without that, the Amberverse is DEAD TO ME
:::drives bus for you to chuck Amberverse under:::
In "Olivia," Olivia says she was fourteen when her mother died.
Somehow it never occurred to me that that would imply foster care of some sort for Olivia and Rachel. (There doesn't seem to be any extended family around.)
I don't think the show has ever said specifically which of the two sisters is older, but OBVIOUSLY it's Olivia, I mean REALLY.
If Rachel is older, EVERYTHING I KNOW ABOUT BIRTH ORDER IS WRONG.
Okay, I am somewhat disturbed that I even managed to think of this, but...
Disturbed, yes...
Can't you just imagine Brandonate deciding it would be grand to try and prove it by killing Ourlivia before they used her for the mass exchange, and setting various small objects next to her to see if any of them were pulled into the other universe?
Eeeeeeevil! Not that having a few little Monopoly playing pieces sucked Over would be any sort of overwhelming proof, but... perhaps he plans to keep a little manila folder of results whenever this situation happens to... pop up? As one does?
YES! Peter should change his name when they get married! *g*
And then Walter could too, just out of solidarity! A whole tribe of Dunhams!
Come onnnnn, Blueverse! Come back to us!
Dear Friday: why so far awaaaaayy??
no subject
Date: 2011-10-22 08:34 pm (UTC)Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-23 01:57 am (UTC)Yeeesss...
Heh, no Olivia in any universe would take longer than two weeks to unkidnap herself!
She's not Olivia if she can't manage that!
Makes you wonder how Amberlivia went from a (presumably) happier childhood to bleaker adulthood. : (
Obviously because there was no Peter! He was the heart of the Bishop/Dunham head-heart-
gunhands trio, and without him they're all a bit lonelier.(To be fair, aside from John Scott, Bluelivia's life pre-Peter was kind of bleak as well. She never mentioned any actual friends aside from Charlie, anyway...)
:::drives bus for you to chuck Amberverse under:::
*readies bowling stance*
Somehow it never occurred to me that that would imply foster care of some sort for Olivia and Rachel. (There doesn't seem to be any extended family around.)
I guess there could've been an aunt/uncle/grandparent/whatever who died between the time the sisters reached adulthood and the beginning of the series, but my bet is on foster care. Because lord knows TV characters are big on their fosterage/adoption issues. (If we count Olivia, four of the six shows I watch regularly have characters who spent time in the foster system and/or were adopted, often with attendant angst.)
Eeeeeeevil! Not that having a few little Monopoly playing pieces sucked Over would be any sort of overwhelming proof, but... perhaps he plans to keep a little manila folder of results whenever this situation happens to... pop up? As one does?
This seems Brandonatey, yes...
And then Walter could too, just out of solidarity! A whole tribe of Dunhams!
Excellent!
Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-25 02:18 am (UTC)gunhandsAwww! So true!
And Peter has the Power of Heart! He's the fifth Planeteer! Aww!
She never mentioned any actual friends aside from Charlie, anyway...
There was that one time she was getting ready to go out! And she had a friend on the phone! And... she had to cancel and that friend was never heard from again. Sigh.
(If we count Olivia, four of the six shows I watch regularly have characters who spent time in the foster system and/or were adopted, often with attendant angst.)
Whaaaat? Okay, Body of Proof, but seriously? What else? Maybe this is a theme that's stalking you. : )
Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-25 03:46 am (UTC)There's a reference here I'm not getting, isn't there?
There was that one time she was getting ready to go out! And she had a friend on the phone! And... she had to cancel and that friend was never heard from again. Sigh.
Heh. Apparently those were so far back and so brief that I've forgotten all about them...
Whaaaat? Okay, Body of Proof, but seriously? What else?
Claudia on Warehouse 13--foster home and a mental institution! it's a two-for-one deal!--and Maura on Rizzoli and Isles, who was adopted into a rich family who raised her with benign neglect, and her bio-dad turns out to be a MOB BOSS. They do things dramatically on R&I.
Maybe this is a theme that's stalking you. : )
Maybe?
Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-27 02:36 am (UTC)Captain (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainPlanetAndThePlaneteers) Planet (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway)! (Arg, you made me look something up on tvtropes! Currrrrrrrrse yooooooooooooou! What if I'd wanted to use those five hours of my life???)
Heh. Apparently those were so far back and so brief that I've forgotten all about them...
I had to go look it up and.... yeah. S1 ahoy!
Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-27 05:38 am (UTC)Errr...apparently that was on when I was off-planet or something. Never heard of it.
(Arg, you made me look something up on tvtropes! Currrrrrrrrse yooooooooooooou! What if I'd wanted to use those five hours of my life???)
NOOOOOOOOOO, not the TV Tropes timesuck wormhoooooooole!!!
Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-27 01:02 pm (UTC)Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-28 04:10 am (UTC)Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-28 04:49 am (UTC)Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-28 05:26 am (UTC)Re: Part 2
Date: 2011-10-28 05:32 am (UTC)