Car shopping

[icepixie]

So, seeing as I'm going to be moving to Knoxville in less than four months, I need to get a car sharpish. (Yes, there's public transportation, but I've done the relying-on-a-bus-to-get-groceries thing, and unless you're somewhere like NYC or Chicago, IT DON'T WORK. Plus, driving home for vacations, etc., and, depending on my luck with finding nearby housing, to campus...yeah.)

I...would pretty much be okay if all we had was the modern equivalent of the Model T. No, seriously. This sucks. I have no idea what to buy, I have a relatively small budget, and seriously, all I want is four wheels, an engine that won't break down all the time, and enough steel around me to keep me from being crushed in an accident. All the different brands and models have such minute and arcane differences that do incomprehensible things to the price, and I can't even begin to wrap my mind around it. The only reason I'm not giving up and investing in a bicycle is because my dad is helping me shop, and at this point has probably done more looking than I have. (Also, biking back to Nashville would be a bit difficult.)

I'm looking solely at used cars, because my budget would allow me to get, um...a new tricycle, I think. (Well, okay, if I plunked down the entirety of my savings account, I could actually get something rather nice, but I also, you know, want to eat next year.)

Anyone have any tips? Brands you like? Bad experiences? I'm leaning towards something from Honda or Toyota because the idea of being stranded on the roadside periodically does not appeal (nor does shopping for another car for AT LEAST ten years), but of course that increased reliability and longevity comes with a corresponding increase in price. Sigh.

Comments

[nickless.livejournal.com]

Ah, I just went through this whole process with my parents. And with my father, it is DEFINITELY a "process."

As far as good experiences - we just bid a sad farewell to my dad's Pontiac Bonneville. It had over 300,000 miles on it and was still in really good shape, even after having been sideswiped by a deer. I highly recommend them, and since they stopped making them in 2005 (they're coming out with a redesigned version that looks like crap), "used" will definitely be your option. We only got rid of it because the junkyard would give us $2,000 for it, and after you hit 300,000 miles in five years, you're kind of expecting to stop at a light and have all the doors to fall off 'cause it's just freakin' TIRED.

In fact, we liked the car so much, Dad bought another one the last year they were made so he'd have another one after the first one died. Which obviously took a lot longer than we ever expected. (And as I'm assuming you wouldn't be driving 60,000 miles a year, a car like that would last a whole lot longer.)

Seriously, a big factor in whether or not a car's going to last a long time and be reliable is how well it's taken care of. Find someone who's taken damn good care of their car and it won't really matter if it's a few years older or has a few thousand more miles on it. I have more faith in the car we just took to the junkyard than some of my friend's relatively-brand-new cars. And, lots of highway miles generally means a used car with less overall wear and tear than one with not-so-many miles that are predominately in-town.

Might want to check out fleet cars or something owned by someone who traveled for work, 'cause again, higher chance of the miles being primarily highway and previous owners making sure it's been properly maintained.

And even though it can be as boring as hell, try out a bunch of different things. Make sure you find something that's comfortable for YOU to drive, 'cause a nice cheap car isn't worth snot if the steering wheel won't adjust to a comfortable level or the way you sit in it means you have a blind spot big enough to hide a semi (both things that have killed otherwise great car possibilities for us in this latest search).

Good luck!

[icepixie]

300,000 miles?? ZOMG. I'll take one of those, please! And yeah, I imagine my milage would be, um, nowhere near 60,000/year. ;)

I'm looking at places like Carmax and Enterprise, so most of the cars I'm looking at were formerly rentals. (Although then again, the last three cars we had were formerly rentals, and they've all been in and out of the shop since we got them. They're all Chevies, too. I'm not getting a Chevy.)

And yeah, test driving. Wheee. Not. Well, gotta be done...

Thanks!

[nickless.livejournal.com]

300,000 miles?? ZOMG. I'll take one of those, please!

Yeah, it was pretty cool. Dad took us to lunch that day and we drove around until it flipped over so we could take a picture. *g* Amazingly, we've talked to a few other people who also have comparatively huge amounts of miles on theirs.

I imagine my milage would be, um, nowhere near 60,000/year.

God, I hope not! Unless you're commuting to Knoxville DAILY, which I doubt!!

And yeah, test driving. Wheee. Not.

I'm not a fan, either. It helps sometimes if you can go without the sales people. Give 'em your keys so they don't think you're stealing it (or at least they can find you if you do!) and a lot of them will let you go on your own. Then you can actually be completely honest about what you're thinking and you don't have to listen to them yap the whole ride.

[icepixie]

Amazingly, we've talked to a few other people who also have comparatively huge amounts of miles on theirs.

Hmmm...

Unless you're commuting to Knoxville DAILY, which I doubt!!

Perhaps if I learned how to sleep while driving...

I am so aiming to go without the sales people. I'll give them whatever collateral they need.

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

Er... I have totally not been imaginary-car-shopping myself over the past few months... sigh...

I've heard good things about carmax.com. It gives you an idea of used price ranges, anyway, and lets you browse. I've been looking at Hondas, too, since reliability is a big issue. If you're planning on a long-term investment, it'll be worth it to spend a little extra now to get a quality car, instead of buying a cheap junkheap that'll die on you in a year. And if you buy from a dealership, you can pay over time instead of having to fork the whole price over at once, so that might help financially. Miles/gallon is important, of course, what with the gas situation. Again, Honda's pretty good at that, no? My online research has been pointing me toward an old-ish Civic: generic, but hey, there's a reason there are so many of them on the road.

Test-drives are indeed important. I remember when Mom went car shopping (ten years ago), she dismissed several models before even starting the engine because the seats were uncomfortable.

I wish I had some hands-on advice to offer, but I've never actually driven a sedan for any appreciable distance before. Stationwagons, minivans, and 12-passenger beasts, yes, but a real car, no.

I'll probably be doing some car shopping myself next year, so I'm excited to hear what you decide on...

[icepixie]

I'm probably going to be buying whatever I get from Carmax, actually. There are two locations here, so lots of choice. And decent prices, too. Plus, no haggling! Yay!

instead of having to fork the whole price over at once, so that might help financially

I would actually prefer to fork over the whole thing at once (I have the money to do that and still live off my stipend and savings if I get something not too expensive), but I also need to start building more credit than one tiny credit card gives me, so I'll probably do half or a little less than half down and pay off the rest over time.

I'm looking more at Accords, but Civics as well. The Civic gets better mileage, but honestly, I'm not going to be driving that much over the next two years (who knows what after that will bring, though), and I don't want to be constantly chugging sloooowly up hills with a tiny engine. *g* I'll need to test drive both first and see if there's an appreciable difference in power. Also, Toyotas and Nissans are apparently very reliable, which is good...they're on my list as well.

Gah, cars. So, are you going to be shopping for one next year because you're moving out of Chicago...?

[asinpterodactyl.livejournal.com]

Actually, the Civic has a reputation as being remarkably sporty for a small car. I have a '99 Civic, and its engine is plenty powerful.

Accords? Really? I don't think you really need a car that big -- unless you buy twenty bags of groceries at a time. :-)

[icepixie]

I'm certainly willing to give the Civic a chance. (Our last four-cylinder, less than 2.0 liter engined-car was a 1984 Ford Escort that had no end of problems and could barely gasp up hills, so my parents are down on the "little putt-putt cars." I'm willing to believe they've improved since then... *g*)

The Accord...probably I don't need that much space--although I will be hauling a bunch of crap to Knoxville in August--but you never know what can happen in ten years. Also, it would assauge parental fears of OMG SUVS WILL CRUSH YOU ON THE INTERSTATE that come from smaller cars. ;) This is all academic anyway until I've test-driven any of them.

[alto2.livejournal.com]

I have a 2002 Civic and there's absolutely no problem getting that baby up a hill. I'm rather stunned that you've even mentioned it, in all honesty, because it's a damn fine automobile and it's never remotely occurred to me that such a thing might be a problem. It also goes faster than 65mph, just in case you were worried ;) I do drive a 5-speed, so I control how the car is powered and can't speak for automatics, but I can't imagine you'd have to get out and push.

The gas mileage on the Civic is excellent, too. I think it has a 13.2 gallon tank, and I can go about 350-400 miles on that. I drive about 5 miles to work and back, and various other errands. Now that I'm doing grad school I don't make as many side trips as I did before, but I only have to fill the tank about once a month. Considering the price of gas these days, that ain't nothin'.

I had Saturns before I had the Civic and I always liked them, too. The only reason I didn't get another one was that I didn't like the look of the newer models. They're very reliable, safe cars, too.

[icepixie]

(Is that Sarah Jane hiding from a Cylon? Awesome!)

but I can't imagine you'd have to get out and push

Heh. See, our old Escort? You did. Hence why we've had six-cylinders since then.

It looks like the Civic gets on average about five miles more to the gallon than an Accord of the same year. The car I share with my parents currently gets about 17, so anything above 25 average, which both are, I consider an improvement. ;) Filling up the tank only once a month would be awesome. It's certainly something to consider, given that I have no idea where I'll end up after these two years are done.

What about the OMG SUVS ARE GOING TO CRUSH ME ON THE INTERSTATE!!! factor? This is a big concern with my parents. I haven't been in a car smaller than Accord-sized since I was about nine, so I really have no frame of reference; however, my lizard brain is saying "the bigger the better."

[alto2.livejournal.com]

That is indeed Sarah Jane and a Cylon. Hadn't realized how much the Giant Robot looked like a Cylon (or vice versa) until I saw the icon, which made me laugh. Had to have it :)

I'm pretty sure I tend to get around 35 mpg. Again, though, I drive stick, and that can mean better gas mileage, so if you're not willing or able to do the same, your mileage may not be as good.

As for the SUV thing, honestly, if that's such a big concern, I don't know why you'd even get on the road. You can be smashed by an SUV while in an SUV yourself just as much as you can be in any other car. And really, the idea that an Accord is going to do anything more for you than a Civic just because it's slightly longer is rather amusing to me, because it's just not going to make any appreciable difference.

[icepixie]

The mileage I was comparing was for automatics, because I haven't the first clue how to drive sticks. :)

As for the SUV thing, honestly, if that's such a big concern, I don't know why you'd even get on the road.

Not to be facetious, but in a perfect world that would actually be my preference. I just don't want to live in a city big enough and public transported-enough to offset the need for a car.

And really, the idea that an Accord is going to do anything more for you than a Civic just because it's slightly longer is rather amusing to me, because it's just not going to make any appreciable difference.

I tend to agree with you (although I wonder, does the fact that it's heavier make any difference?). I know it's an issue for my father, though, and since my parents are going to help me pay for the car, whatever it turns out to be, that's something to consider.

[asinpterodactyl.livejournal.com]

Gas mileage: my '99 Civic is an automatic, and it always gives me between 32 and 34 mpg.

[icepixie]

Sweet; thanks.

[nickless.livejournal.com]

does the fact that it's heavier make any difference?

Yes.

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

but I also need to start building more credit than one tiny credit card gives me, so I'll probably do half or a little less than half down and pay off the rest over time.

Ooh, good plan.

Also, Toyotas and Nissans are apparently very reliable, which is good...they're on my list as well.

Eh, Mom has a '97 Nissan, and it's been in and out of the shop a lot lately. Then again, it's a minivan, and she treats it like crap. Nissans might actually be good if you take decent care of them and do maintenance and stuff.

So, are you going to be shopping for one next year because you're moving out of Chicago...?

Yes! Good lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'll be headed down south next summer. (My vague goal at the moment is Chattanooga, if I can find a nice job down there, so if you're gonna be in Knoxville for a few years, I might be within hanging-out distance...)

[icepixie]

Ooh, good plan.

Hopefully the next loan I get won't require a co-signer...

Eh, Mom has a '97 Nissan, and it's been in and out of the shop a lot lately. Then again, it's a minivan, and she treats it like crap. Nissans might actually be good if you take decent care of them and do maintenance and stuff.

Well, there is that. I'm irritated that you can't get ABS standard on the Nissan Altimas, which is dragging them down in my eyes. I enjoy ABS.

Yes! Good lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'll be headed down south next summer. (My vague goal at the moment is Chattanooga, if I can find a nice job down there, so if you're gonna be in Knoxville for a few years, I might be within hanging-out distance...)

You could always come back to Knoxville and live with meeeeee...

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

Hopefully the next loan I get won't require a co-signer...

I KNOW! I'm sooo hoping my new credit score and steady employment will get me out of a co-signer on my next lease. Co-signers are a pain.

I enjoy ABS.

Yup.

You could always come back to Knoxville and live with meeeeee...

Ooooh... I hadn't even thought of that... Although that might put me uncomfortably close to my mom... I do enjoy Knoxville, otherwise. Eh, I don't really have a clue what I'm doing, right now. I'm kinda just waiting around, hoping next-summer-stuff will magically fall together on its own. That works, right?

[icepixie]

I KNOW! I'm sooo hoping my new credit score and steady employment will get me out of a co-signer on my next lease. Co-signers are a pain.

Well, I have my dad, so it's not a pain for me...perhaps it is for him, although he can access my bank account, so it's not like I'd be keeping the money from him. *g*

Ooooh... I hadn't even thought of that...

YOU SHOULD COME!

Although that might put me uncomfortably close to my mom...

...Pretend you actually live in Chattanooga?

Eh, I don't really have a clue what I'm doing, right now. I'm kinda just waiting around, hoping next-summer-stuff will magically fall together on its own. That works, right?

Er, yeah, that works... On a more serious note, I will probably get an August 1-July 31 lease this year. You should come join me next August when I sign a new one... (Or run away and come live with me this fall! Hee.)

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

Well, I have my dad, so it's not a pain for me...

Ugh, I had to have Mom co-sign my current lease, and she gave me hell over it for *weeks*, telling me that I'd never be able to keep up with rent, and that I'd have to move back home in no time... Yeah, I don't want her co-signing this next one.

...Pretend you actually live in Chattanooga?

HA! I should just "forget" to tell her I ever left Chicago...

You should come join me next August when I sign a new one...

That is tempting... I'll keep that in mind as I start to make more concrete plans this winter.

(Or run away and come live with me this fall! Hee.)

Even more tempting, because then I wouldn't have to do my own apartment search next month! But no, I'm sticking with this job for another year, so my job history won't look so willy-nilly. (And I really don't want to have to go through a job search again so soon. Haaaaaaaate.)

[icepixie]

Yeah, I don't want her co-signing this next one.

I can see why... That's one thing to be said for living at home for two years...I have no concerns whatsoever about paying my rent for the next two years. (It helps that K'ville is CHEAP cheap cheap cheap. Wow. Studios for $375 a month plus utilities? I'm there.)

I should just "forget" to tell her I ever left Chicago...

There's an idea!

That is tempting... I'll keep that in mind as I start to make more concrete plans this winter.

Yay!

Even more tempting, because then I wouldn't have to do my own apartment search next month! But no, I'm sticking with this job for another year, so my job history won't look so willy-nilly. (And I really don't want to have to go through a job search again so soon. Haaaaaaaate.)

Willy-nilly? How many years did you spend at camp, again?

[rensong.livejournal.com]

Honda and Toyota are both good choices when it comes to reliability. I also like Chevys - they also tend to last a little bit longer, though if you get one thats more than 10 years old - or, well, any car more than 10 years old - there's a good chance that you might have to make a few expensive repairs to some of the basic systems like breaks and transmissions and what not.

Also, I hear Suberu (only spelled right) is a pretty reliable car, but if you get one with an automatic transmission you are going to have issues after about 140 thousand miles.

[icepixie]

Our last three cars have been Chevys, and the've been money-sinks as far as repairs go (apparently we don't learn after the first two). I do like the Malibu--it's a renamed version of the Corsica, the car I learned to drive in--but seriously, our Lumina goes to the shop at least three times a year now, and the truck only a little less, probably because it's three years newer.

I would love a Subaru (although I don't really need all-wheel drive...would be great to have, though), but alas, even the used ones are out of my price range.

[vbrooksutk.livejournal.com]

Hey, sorry to not get back to you before now. I'm doing the full time thing while teaching and going to bartending school 20 hours a week, so I'm a bit crosseyed.

Sterling University heights was an awesome, awesome place to live. You never know who you're going to end up with neighbors, though, and that's something to keep in mind. The pool area (near the office) can get a bit loud during the summertime. I lived in the building next to the pool and hardly ever heard noise, though. The parking lot can get loud if people are out there blasting music and drinking, but this is an activity that is usually reserved for football games.

Something to keep in mind is that UT is, in fact, a party school. The campus itself has improved on the noise level, but off-campus housing can be hit or miss. I have a friend living at University Heights - actually, we lived together in the apartment and he's still there 4 years later - if you'd like to get in touch with him. I'd be glad to give you his contact info.

That, and you asked about the campus a little while ago. The bus from Sterling drops you off very close to McClung and Humanities, where you would probably be "living." The possible downside? If you were TAing for a freshman English class, then you could end up in the nuclear engineering building. Seriously - when they run out of room, there is no telling where a class will end up. I had mathematical economics in the nuclear engineering building... Latin American history in the social work area... marketing in the chemistry building... but traditionally, your classes should all be very close to one another.

Did you have any other questions that you can remember? I'm at work right now and seriously *off* mentally. My phone number is on Facebook if you want to send me any texts (or phone calls :) and also, Catie Stewart is still in Knoxvegas - she's starting her M.S.? in teaching. My ex-boyfriend who is still a great friend... he's still there as well.

Sorry for the rambling, but I didn't want you to think I was avoiding you or didn't want to recommend the area - I absolutely loved my time in Knoxville, and think it made me a much better person than I was beforehand.

I could also possibly hook you up with a job or two if you needed something.

And on the used car note, I'm on my second Ford Focus. Super easy to drive, you can get a used one for under $6000 that runs perfectly well, and the car insurance is very cheap. You'll want something that you can park in ANY sized-spot if you are parking anywhere at the campus, and my focus was able to turn on a dime into just about any spot. Nothing like pissing off some SUVs that can't fit into a spot, and then whipping in behind them. Booya!! The 2000 and 2001 (first two model years) had many recalls, but the recalls slowed considerably after then.

There is a Kroger, super wal-mart, and walgreens on Chapman Highway (within sneezing distance of both Sterling and NorthWood - and you totally avoid the highway traffic). And the west town mall rocks. And there are great health food stores. I'm going to stop now.

Cheers!!!

visual aids

[vbrooksutk.livejournal.com]

Ford Focus standard 4-door sedan


Ford Focus 5-door hatchback (zx5)


Ford Focus 3-door hatchback (zx3)


FOrd Focus Wagon

[icepixie]

I'm doing the full time thing while teaching and going to bartending school 20 hours a week, so I'm a bit crosseyed.

Eeeek.

You never know who you're going to end up with neighbors, though, and that's something to keep in mind.

Yeah, I thought about that. Is it entirely students? That's how the website made it sound. (Although, plus side, you didn't have to bring your own roommate.) It sounds like the neighbors would be shifting from year-to-year, and over the sumer as well. I have my tuition covered for the summer because of my TAship, so I'm going to take that opportunity to work on my Spanish so I can pass the proficiency test for my degree. I wonder if I might do better just trying to find a decent roommate on Craigslist--another grad student or young professional, maybe. Or just staying the first year in a single-bedroom somewhere that doesn't look like it has many students...rents are incredibly cheap, it seems.

Something to keep in mind is that UT is, in fact, a party school.

Alas, I have realized this. Then again, once you get over a certain number of students--about the number necessary to have a grad school attached, in fact--it seems like that element can be found in greater or lesser amounts everywhere.

I would love to talk to your friend who still lives in the apartments.

I think two of my three potential classes I'm taking are going to be in HSS, and the other is...somehwere else. I forget where it said on the timetable. And god knows where my section of freshman comp is going to be. :) I don't mind walking, though, and the campus didn't look like anything I couldn't cross in 20 minutes or so.

Re: jobs: Thanks for the offer! That would be nice; unfortunately, the department makes you jump through a lot of hoops before you can get an outside job if you're a TA, and I think there might be some kind of financial need involved as well. It sounds like it would be a strain on time even to add ten or twelve extra hours to the schedule, actually.

I'll look into the Ford Focus. My financing will only work as far back as a 2003 model of any car, though, so I would have to pay more than $6,000, probably. (I would love to just pay for the whole thing at once, but I'm also going to try to use this as a credit-building opportunity, since all the credit record I have is one very limited credit card.) I'm definitely looking at small or mid-sized cars; I for sure don't need a behemoth car anywhere, much less when trying to park on campus.

Yay for necessary stores! I believe I've told you that the only Kroger and Super Wal-Mart I had access to in college were a ten-minute drive away in the next town. This will be novel. ;)

oops

[vbrooksutk.livejournal.com]

wrong paste - this is the wagon

and the zx3!

[vbrooksutk.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize I was hitting the Function key. Lame!

[valkyrieks.livejournal.com]

When I was researching the buying of my car, what most sites agreed on is that while Hondas and Toyotas are both great and last for a very long time, the brand name on them shoves the price up by several thousand dollars. There are other brands, like Nissan and Chrysler, that are so close that it makes little difference, and there is often a dramatic price difference. I ended up with a Nissan that I love. That's my input. Good luck!

[icepixie]

Interesting...I wonder if it holds as true for used cars as new? I'm also looking at Nissans, and while they're cheaper than a Honda or Toyota, it's only by maybe $500 or $1,000. Haven't looked at Chryslers, though.

Thanks!

[alto2.livejournal.com]

For whatever it's worth, a friend at work several years ago got rid of his Nissan Altima and bought a Civic because the cost of owning the Altima was too high. That's a pretty small sample size, so I don't know how common it is or how it could/should affect your decision, but I thought I should mention it anyway.

[icepixie]

Hmmmm. Thanks, that's interesting. My issue with the Altimas (otherwise a nice car) is that very few of them have anti-lock brakes, and those that do jack up the price quite a lot. ABS isn't the be-all and end-all of car ownership, but I've driven cars with both, and prefer ABS.

[alto2.livejournal.com]

My god, is ABS still not standard on Japanese cars??? I was stunned that I had to get the EX-model Civic in 02 in order to get ABS, and hoped they'd have improved that in recent years. I won't drive a car without it (and you get an insurance discount for having it, which certainly says something!). Of the three accidents I've had, two were because of slippery surfaces and not having ABS. I have more than enough evidence of the fact that, in a panic situation, I simply will not remember to pump the brakes, ergo I have ABS. I don't know why the Japanese haven't cottoned onto that one.

[icepixie]

My god, is ABS still not standard on Japanese cars???

Sadly, not on Nissans. The Hondas and Toyotas mostly seem to have it, though.

I have luckily only been in a panic situation twice that I can remember, both in dry weather, but I really would prefer not to test my pumping/not-pumping reaction in a car which requires pumping.

[alto2.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, I filled my tank last night and went 385.5 miles on 11.2 gallons of gas, which is 34.4 miles to the gallon. (Yes, I thought of you while I was getting gas, which...may or may not be rather sad ;) )

[icepixie]

Oooooh, lovely mileage.

I went and test-drove a Civic and an Accord the night before last. I did like both of them almost equally well, but the Civic had no ABS (Accord did--although that was these particular cars, neither of which I will be buying), and also the engine was quite noisy. That might get annoying on long car rides home for breaks. I was impressed by how roomy it felt, though, and also that aside from the noise, the engines had very little difference in performance. (I mean, on neither of them are you going to hit 75 and not know you're hitting it, like you can with the six-cylinder I drive now, but I definitely didn't think they were "little putt-putt cars," to use Dad's term.)

I'm trying out some Toyotas tonight...I hope they're similar, because they're somewhat cheaper!

Yes, I thought of you while I was getting gas, which...may or may not be rather sad ;)

Heh. I'll choose to consider it sweet.

[alto2.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Toyotas do run cheaper, though, at least back in 02 when I bought my Civic, the ABS was an option rather than standard on all models, so I don't know if it'll be harder to find one with it or not. I do regret not going to look at the Toyotas at all when I bought mine, just because I see one every so often and wonder if I'd have done myself a financial favor and ended up with a car that was just as good. I don't regret buying the Civic at all, otherwise, though. It's a great little car, and as you discovered, definitely not a putt-putt!

If you really want to see a putt-putt car, I don't think you can beat this--do watch the whole thing, it's quite funny! (Well, I crack up every time I see it, in any case!)

[icepixie]

I posted a link to that a few months ago! It is HILARIOUS! (Also, I want one.)

Alas, yes, it's hard to find ABS on Toyotas as well. Although in my grand car-buying equation, Fewer Repairs wins out over ABS. I've driven a car w/o ABS for about seven years now, so I can deal if I have to. Would prefer not to (ABS wins out over practically everything else in my grand equation) but what are you gonna do? They aren't even standard on a lot of American-built cars.

[alto2.livejournal.com]

You linked to it? Damn, I thought sure it was wheresmycow. Must need a serious dose of mental floss!

If you're comfortable without the ABS, then the Toyota may well be just as good as the Honda. I'm actually rather curious to know what you think!

[icepixie]

'Twas me, 'twas me!

Okay, back from the Toyota driving. I tried both the Camry and the Corolla, and loved them both. Both felt more...substantial than their Honda counterparts, and both had more pickup and drove a little bit more smoothly than the Honda versions as well. The Corolla was quieter than the Civic, which was nice (I think the engine is a tenth of a liter bigger or something like that, which perhaps helps...either that or they have better noise control in the car itself), and I believe the car itself is bit larger as well. It's hard to find ABS on either, but I could live if I didn't find it.

In short, I want a Toyota. :)

[alto2.livejournal.com]

Wow. Maybe next time I'll look into the Toyotas, though I'm hoping it won't be for several years. (Lordy, but I'd love to have a Prius--not only is the gas mileage great but I hear it's got Bluetooth that puts cell phone calls through the car speakers, which is just wild!)

I hope you'll be posting a pic of whichever car you end up with :)

[icepixie]

The Prius would be awesome. With any luck, by the time I'm ready for a new car, it will be down in my price range. *g*

Oh, I'm sure I'll be posting a pic at some point...

[asinpterodactyl.livejournal.com]

I was in the same situation last year. I did mountains and mountains of research, and wound up limiting myself to Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas. (Yes, other brands may be cheaper, but you wind up paying more over time with all the repairs they need.)

My number one piece of advice: Do NOT buy any used car until you've checked it on CARFAX (carfax.com), which is a service that offers vehicle history reports. Given a car's VIN, you can see how many owners it's had, where it's lived, and (most importantly) what accidents it's been in. Buy one of CARFAX's one-month passes for $30, and you can check an unlimited number of reports for no extra charge.

Why does this matter? Well, I almost bought a white Corolla, which the seller swore had never been in any serious accident, but when I looked it up on CARFAX, the darned thing had been totaled and rebuilt. If I'd bought it, I'd now be helplessly watching the car fall apart in my driveway.

Lesson: Trust CARFAX. Don't trust sellers.

[icepixie]

*makes notes about CARFAX* Carmax's website has a free vehicle history report, but I did notice that pretty much none of the cars I checked were ever in any kind of accident or had any sort of problem whatsoever, which makes me a bit mistrustful. (Of course, most of them are rental fleet cars without much mileage, so it's just possible that none of the twenty or so I checked on had had problems.) That one-month pass sounds like a good idea.

(Yes, other brands may be cheaper, but you wind up paying more over time with all the repairs they need.)

That's my conclusion as well. Also, I'm totally willing to pay more for peace of mind.

[asinpterodactyl.livejournal.com]

Oh, one more thing -- Hondas and Toyotas do command higher prices, but there's a way around that: get a Chevy Prizm. It's actually a Toyota model with a Chevy nameplate. Ergo, you get Toyota quality without having to pay for the name.

Wikipedia says this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Prizm):

Although Prizms were virtually identical to Toyota Corollas (aside from small cosmetic differences, a GM Delco radio, and the lack of a rear stabilizer bar), the market never showed them the same respect. In 2006, NADA put the value of a 2002 Prizm at US$7,300 compared to US$9,150 for a nearly identical Toyota. However, this does make it a good value for an astute Corolla buyer who appreciates the discount that comes with the Geo / Chevy badge.

[icepixie]

I like the idea, but, alas, cannot get financing through the credit union on anything older than 2003. (I could, and would prefer to, just put down all the cash at once, but this is a good opportunity to build some kind of credit, since I have basically none.)

[nickless.livejournal.com]

Okay, new suggestions from Dad, El Guru of Car Shopping. :)

He suggested the Pontiac Grand Prix. A little smaller than our Bonneville, but the same drive train (ie, will likely last as long as the Bonnevilles). Lots of used ones being sold right now, especially as former rentals. Would be able to get a newer Grand Prix with fewer miles on it for less money than you'd pay for a Civic or Accord that was older with more miles.

Whatever you go with - he advised that you make sure to get something that still has the *factory* warranty on it. Not the "rinky-dink crap the dealership will try to push on you." That means it'd have to be less than 3 years old with less than 10,000 miles on it.

Also, in terms of the Carfax thing - if you're working with a dealer, ask them to pull up that info for you. They'll get the thorough records and it'll be free. (Plus then if you have problems they didn't tell you about, you have a valid argument that hello, they knew about it.)

[icepixie]

*takes notes* Thanks, I'll look into the Grand Prix tonight when I go test driving some more.

That means it'd have to be less than 3 years old with less than 10,000 miles on it.

Uhhhh...perhaps if I bought a cardboard box on wheels I could swing that... *g* I will almost certainly be buying from Carmax (although a dealer isn't totally ruled out, but my entire family sucks at haggling, and the no-haggle policy at Carmax is attractive), which has a rinky-dink 30-day warranty on all cars, but I think at least some of the things they're selling that I would be buying still have a few years left on the drivetrain warranty, if not everything else. The people there should be able to pull up the legitimate vehicle history (their website has one, but it appears to be run through Carmax, so I trust it about as far as I can throw it), so I'll see if they can do that when I actually find one I want to buy.