BSG 4.17: "No Exit"

[icepixie]

Though not as adrenaline-inducing as the last couple of episodes, this one had more than enough chewy backstory goodness to make up for it. I do adore my fake history. And Ellen! Ellen was totally believable as architect of the Original Seven New Eight! I didn't hate every moment she was on the screen!

- New intro. I like it. "One was sacrificed" threw me for a bit, and then they cut to New Caprica, and all made sense. Of course, since she's not actually dead, that has less meaning...unless...are they going for the Jesus paralell with her dying as a "human" and being reborn as a god-figure (or at any rate revealed to us as a creator-type)? Because I was definitely getting Jesusy overtones there. Heh, except for the apple she offered to Sharon. And then ate herself. Er. The devil gets rejected?

- I knew Anders would totally remember things as a result of being knocked out! I knew it! And holy crap, he remembers lots of things. I was glad to see the five white sheets in the temple return.

- Speaking of returning, CAVIL, YAY! I love that atheist Cylon. And I totally grok wanting to have machine capabilities, too--I want the same thing sometimes. Although Ellen was saying she and the other Fivers could give the Eight free will only because they were human, but...I don't really see why Cavil couldn't be more machine-like and have free will at the same time. Is Ellen saying that free will brings with it all of these other human qualities Cavil doesn't like? Or maybe that free will is pointless without these other emotions to use it on?

- So the claw marks were a breach. And there's many, many more. Poor Galactica. Glad Adama came to his senses and allowed Tyrol to repair as necessary, even with Cylon goo. (And yay, it's Chief Tyrol again!)

- Hmmm. "Centurion side of the family"? As in the skinjobs are perhaps Cylon-Human hybrids?

- Although the scene with Lee and Laura was short, it was really good. Lee made a good point about them not being from particular colonies anymore, but from their ships in the fleet, and hooray, Laura is stepping down. (Although it's weird that she's still a figurehead. Shouldn't the people elect Lee?)

- So now there are EIGHT non-fab five Cylons. I was thinking Kara might be the final one, since she glowed along with the others in Sam's hallucino-vision, but then Ellen said it was "Daniel." Although Daniel was an artist...Kara's an artist...maybe Kara is number seven with a sex change?

- So. Sharon says, "Who would I want to love?" and they cut straight to Tyrol. GEE, I WONDER WHAT THAT IMPLIES.

- The idea of everyone sharing the guilt for the Holocaust is interesting, but I haven't really thought it through yet. Food for thought, though.

- And the brain surgeon is John Hodgeman, aka PC in the PC vs. Mac commercials and Senior Expert ont he Daily Show. I know typecasting is bad, but that totally broke the mood for me.

- The colony? Hmmm. I have a feeling we'll be seeing that before the show is over...

- So the monotheistic god came from the Centurions...but Ellen subscribes to it as well and built the skinjobs based on direction from God...I'm confused now. I need all the backstory revealed here to be written down before I can absorb it, I guess.

- And speaking of Ellen and the Fab Five creating the skinjobs. TIGH, YOU TOTALLY IMPREGNATED YOUR "DAUGHTER." EW.

- Adama, should you be washing your mysterious pills down with booze? Usually that kind of thing is contraindicated.

- I'm kind of curious what the title had to do with this episode. Maybe just too many things have been set in motion to get off the merry-go-round now?

Comments

[orangetango.livejournal.com]

Although Daniel was an artist...Kara's an artist...maybe Kara is number seven with a sex change?

That, actually, is really interesting to think about. I'm sure they could do that.

I'm kind of curious what the title had to do with this episode. Maybe just too many things have been set in motion to get off the merry-go-round now?

I thought of the Satre play by the same title. It's where the phrase "Hell is other people" first appeared (which btw is one of my most favorite phrases EVAR). And basically it's about the characters just torturing each other; they're in a room waiting for a torturer to come for them, but it turns out they're all the torturer, sent to torment the others. Also, the characters become increasingly neurotic and draw inward, they lose their metaphorical connection to Earth - that is, the rest of the world.

I mean, I'm not 100% convinced there's a direct connection there, but it sure is interesting to think about, especially that "losing their connection to Earth/humanity bit. And the everybody torturing each other stuff.

[icepixie]

That, actually, is really interesting to think about. I'm sure they could do that.

I've heard a theory that he's her father being bandied around as well, and I could totally go with that. That probably makes even more sense.

I thought of the Satre play by the same title. It's where the phrase "Hell is other people" first appeared (which btw is one of my most favorite phrases EVAR). And basically it's about the characters just torturing each other; they're in a room waiting for a torturer to come for them, but it turns out they're all the torturer, sent to torment the others. Also, the characters become increasingly neurotic and draw inward, they lose their metaphorical connection to Earth - that is, the rest of the world.

I mean, I'm not 100% convinced there's a direct connection there, but it sure is interesting to think about, especially that "losing their connection to Earth/humanity bit. And the everybody torturing each other stuff.

Huh. I'd never heard of that play. But I like it!

[laserhead.livejournal.com]

So the claw marks were a breach.

I KNEW Galactica was falling apart. I figured they'd have to cylon-fix her, or land on a nice planet and build there.

And Boomer/Tyrrol? So right there with you.

Apparently the title had something to do with a famous play?

Anyway, if you haven't, I recommend reading TWOP's summary. Hysterical.

[icepixie]

Anyway, if you haven't, I recommend reading TWOP's summary. Hysterical.

Oooooh...

[alto2.livejournal.com]

I know typecasting is bad, but that totally broke the mood for me.

AMEN. I don't know that it's typecasting so much as he was cast too far against type and, for me at least, just didn't pull it off. If you'd never seen him in anything else, maybe it would work, but as it stands? Uh-uh. I kept expecting him to spout some wild line of bull and end it all with "Yes, Jon, it's true." And to believe he was more skilled than Cottle? Hahahahahahaha.

I'm a bit confused on the backstory, too, so you're not alone there.

maybe Kara is number seven with a sex change?

Ooh! She did say that Cavil genetically mutated the Daniel copies. Maybe Kara is the result? Though Daniel didn't sound especially like the kick-ass fighter pilot type. Either way, I'm inrtigued by this idea, a whole lot.

Maybe just too many things have been set in motion to get off the merry-go-round now?

Play or no play, I think that's true, though I also think it has been for a while.

[icepixie]

AMEN. I don't know that it's typecasting so much as he was cast too far against type and, for me at least, just didn't pull it off. If you'd never seen him in anything else, maybe it would work, but as it stands? Uh-uh. I kept expecting him to spout some wild line of bull and end it all with "Yes, Jon, it's true." And to believe he was more skilled than Cottle? Hahahahahahaha.

THANK YOU. John Hodgeman as a Colonial brain surgeon just does not compute.

Ooh! She did say that Cavil genetically mutated the Daniel copies. Maybe Kara is the result? Though Daniel didn't sound especially like the kick-ass fighter pilot type. Either way, I'm inrtigued by this idea, a whole lot.

I'm totally going with it, or the variation that a Daniel was Kara's father. That actually makes more sense, really...

[alto2.livejournal.com]

John Hodgeman as a Colonial brain surgeon just does not compute

Nope, and it really ruined the moment for me.

Could a Daniel have been anyone's father? Did they ever get that far? Of course, this is the real crux of the matter, and the part they didn't explain in the episode, so I sure hope we'll find out, since it'd be one helluva loose end.

Actually, I keep coming back to "The Farm," but there are loose ends there--the Cylons have Kara's ovary, presumably--they took something, at least, and that was the implication. Wouldn't they know an awful lot about her based on that? If she really was a Cylon, how would they not know that already?

Which brings to mind another question--did Ellen know she was a Cylon before Saul killed her? I'm finding that a bit difficult to swallow now, since she was helping Cavil (and didn't she sleep with him, too? Or am I totally misremembering that?) on New Caprica, and yet...it would make a sort of sense.

Hmm.

[icepixie]

Could a Daniel have been anyone's father? Did they ever get that far?

I would have to go back and watch the episode again to answer that, I think. I feel like Abel Daniel ahd been running around doing stuff long enough so that Ellen took a liking to him and Cain Cavil started to hate him, but I don't know if that translates to a copy being able to get to Caprica and father Kara or not.

Actually, I keep coming back to "The Farm," but there are loose ends there--the Cylons have Kara's ovary, presumably--they took something, at least, and that was the implication. Wouldn't they know an awful lot about her based on that? If she really was a Cylon, how would they not know that already?

I have heard the Cylons-on-Earth thing explained as, "the thirteenth tribe on Kobol were human like the others, but humans who had discovered resurrection technology and used it instead of procreation." So maybe their bodies are not necessarily different than normal humans, they just know--knew--the secret of res-tech? (And thus ALL humans can become "Cylons," leading to the inevitable conclusion that WE ARE ALL CYLONS!) Although that doesn't explain the super-strength and endurance that the Fabulous Four show from time to time. Hmm.

Which brings to mind another question--did Ellen know she was a Cylon before Saul killed her?

I got the impression that her situation was the same as the others--Cavil had wiped her memory before placing her back with the humans, so she didn't know. And yes, she did sleep with him on New Caprica. Apparently some dialogue about "the swirl" is a reference to that. (I don't remember said dialogue, but that's what I've read from people who bother to listen to the podcasts.)

[alto2.livejournal.com]

I don't know if that translates to a copy being able to get to Caprica and father Kara or not

I thought Cavil attempted to destroy all copies of Daniel, which would mean that the original would have to be the one that got away. Did I mishear that?

WE ARE ALL CYLONS!

So are we just different models somehow? Because Baltar, for all his secrecy about it, did manage to prove that Boomer was a Cylon pretty early on with his Super Cylon Decector Kit. Didn't he also run it on himself and it came up negative? Would make sense since he was so paranoid that he was one there for a while.

I got the impression that her situation was the same as the others--Cavil had wiped her memory before placing her back with the humans, so she didn't know.

That's what I was assuming, which is why I was kind of surprised that she didn't light into Cavil for it during the episode. I sure as hell would have in her shoes! And WTF is "the swirl"?? Do I have to start listening to podcasts to follow this show now? As if the webisodes weren't bad enough??

[icepixie]

I thought Cavil attempted to destroy all copies of Daniel, which would mean that the original would have to be the one that got away. Did I mishear that?

I'm not sure when in the process Cavil attemped to destroy everything Daniel-related, so I don't know who might've gotten away...

So are we just different models somehow? Because Baltar, for all his secrecy about it, did manage to prove that Boomer was a Cylon pretty early on with his Super Cylon Decector Kit. Didn't he also run it on himself and it came up negative? Would make sense since he was so paranoid that he was one there for a while.

Yeah, but it didn't detect the Fabulous Four, either. I think it's only the created-by-Ellen Cylons who can be detected. More-human Cylons, and I'm assuming hybrids, can't be.

That's what I was assuming, which is why I was kind of surprised that she didn't light into Cavil for it during the episode. I sure as hell would have in her shoes!

I think she was trying to be oh-so-forgiving, maybe? To pull him back into the fold?

And WTF is "the swirl"?? Do I have to start listening to podcasts to follow this show now? As if the webisodes weren't bad enough??

The swirl is some kind of Cylon sexual flourish. Apaprently Cavil referenced Ellen giving it to him at some point in this episode. So I hear, anyway. (I don't listen to podcasts, I just read message board posts from those who do.)

[alto2.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure when in the process Cavil attemped to destroy everything Daniel-related, so I don't know who might've gotten away...

I could have sworn Ellen said that he poisoned "the copies," which is why I was assuming that Daniel would have to have been the only one that was viable, at least in his original form.

Yeah, but it didn't detect the Fabulous Four, either.

Well, here's a question--did they ever get round to testing everyone? Was it ever implied? I certainly don't recall Gaius running some big Test-Everyone-Right-Now deal, and since the implication of the Boomer incident is that he couldn't be trusted to report the results accurately, I sort of suspect that they just dropped that plotline post-Boomer.

I think she was trying to be oh-so-forgiving, maybe? To pull him back into the fold?

Yeah, maybe. Though on further thought, it's more difficult to believe that Cavil didn't bring it up just to get under her skin.

[icepixie]

Well, here's a question--did they ever get round to testing everyone? Was it ever implied?

Dude, that was four years ago. I have no idea. :D I feel like they did, but really I couldn't say.

Though on further thought, it's more difficult to believe that Cavil didn't bring it up just to get under her skin.

Maybe he figured threatening to open up her brain was bad enough?

[alto2.livejournal.com]

Dude, that was four years ago. I have no idea. :D

LOL It was only two years ago for me, but I am right there with you! (I find myself wanting to go back and watch some old stuff, only I know if I do that, it'll snowball and end up totally out of control, and I have this book to fix, post-haste, so I'm resisting that temptation. For now.)

Maybe he figured threatening to open up her brain was bad enough?

That's a mighty fair point ya got there, missy. ;)