B5 Rewatch: "Atonement"

[icepixie]

Insta-rec: The Future An Experiment by thrace_ - Lovely, plotty Myka/H.G. Wells fic. I wish it were canon.

*

Atonement
In which we find out that Delenn is actually even more badass than we thought, and also have cause to re-evaluate every single thing she said or did over the past three years. Well played, JMS, well played. (Well. Aside from the whole "We must keep our race pure!" thing that pops up out of nowhere. Should this not perhaps have gotten a mention earlier in the series? Lennier might have said, "You know, the folks back home aren't really going to like you and Sheridan shackin' up, just sayin'..." Possibly this is raised in the brouhaha the Grey Council makes about Delenn's change, but I remember that as being more, "You egotistical upstart! How do you know the prophecy's about you?" than about racial purity.*)

Speaking of which, I kind of love how she's all, "It didn't show me what I want? Well, I'm going to go back in there and MAKE IT SHOW ME what I want it to!" You know, I think this is one of the things about Sheridan/Delenn that bugs me: they're presented basically as the immovable rock marrying the irresistible force, and yet does anyone actually believe Sheridan stands a chance of opposing her in any way? I mean, really. And yet she sometimes gets shunted into the girlfriend role--granted, I think she kind of prefers it because she likes being the power behind the throne, pulling Sheridan's puppet strings--but it irks me a lot, and it bleeds over into my perception of the relationship itself. I also tend to think there's more than a little truth to the idea that she's interested in him 'cause she wants to atone for her actions in the war. The title of this episode does not escape me.

(I keep thinking about how I would re-write this episode for my Susan/Delenn AU. Basically, Susan would meet her in the departure area and be like, "You're sneaking off in the middle of the night to go to Minbar and face up to this whackaloon racial purity council? Over my dead body." And Delenn would think, "You know, she figured out the whole thing where I started the war; I could probably use that information-ferreting quality of hers." And then they'd go up to her clan, and even before all the Random Room of Dry Ice business, tell them, "Do you really want us to tell everyone what we figured out about Valen and human DNA and pretty much the entire population of the planet? 'Cause we can do that." When Kalenn, or whatever his name was, makes noises about the ancient war bride practice, they'd both just give him Looks, and nothing more would need to be said. And then they'd leave, and Delenn's clan would never, ever talk about it again.)

Anyway, then Delenn finds out she's Sinclair's great-great-etc.-granddaughter. As if she didn't have enough DESTINY swirling about her already.

This episode is kind of all about Delenn's relationship with men, isn't it? Sinclair biologically, Sheridan romantically, Lennier and Dukhat...teacherly/studently. Er. I'm sure there's a better way to phrase that, but you know what I mean. Also, Lennier would quite like it to be romantically, and I can't blame him, as I totally ship him with Delenn a lot. Oh, Lennier.

Dukhat! Dukhat is really quite awesome. I love how much of Delenn's demeanor, especially with Lennier, we can now trace back to him. The obvious one is the "I cannot have an aide who will not look up" bit, but also her being on B5 in the first place is probably due to his influence, and his cultivation of her natural tendency toward curiosity. Dukhat actually makes me think "Scariest. Diss. Adviser. EVER," but you know he'd also be the one with students who are published prior to graduation and get tenure-track jobs immediately after they get their degree. They'd just be, you know, stressed-out alcoholics from the pressure of working with him.

Okay, I think that does it for the main plot. Only one other thing I want to comment on: Marcus's obvious preference for the Victorians. Okay, so he obviously had Pre-Raphaelite posters all over his walls as a kid, and no doubt memorized great chunks of Tennyson. I get why he'd be all over Dickens. (He's probably a huge Elizabeth Gaskell fan too.) But come on, man! Just move ahead a few decades and awesome awaits! I know you'd like Joyce. And probably Forster. You likely wouldn't know what to do with Woolf, though I think your lady-love would really get a kick out of Orlando. Here, let me start you off easy with some Celtic Twilight-era Yeats. I know you'll like that.

(Sorry, we had a little fake feud going on between the Victorianists and the Modernists/20th Century folks at my grad school, and sometimes you have to stick up for your side, you know?)

* I tend to read the Minbari attitude toward Minbari souls appearing in human bodies as more, "Really? Huh. That's interesting and kind of freaky; we should study it," than "OMG THE IMPURE!!1!!11!!eleventy!!!", though perhaps that was in fact meant to be the reading.

Comments

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Eeeeee, one of my Very Favorite Episodes! ♥

The OMG RACIAL PURITY! thing does indeed seem to come almost out of nowhere - the closest we get to it prior is the reactions to Delenn's transformation, which is sort of a different thing. Everybody keeps telling her she's not Minbari anymore. Which, okay, fine - she's not, she's a hybrid. Um. Which you would think would mean they'd be okay with her icky-hybrid-ness going off and marrying some Human so that she doesn't create more icky-hybrid Minbari. Unless Kalenn's plan is to stuff her in a temple somewhere (...which, honestly, the Minbari are just medieval enough that I could buy as his intention, sort of...) then getting her to not marry Sheridan seems like it would run exactly counter to his stated desires.

You're right, Susan would totally not be having with any of this nonsense, and it would be delightful to watch her and Delenn rip the whole thing apart. ♥

Lennier. Ohhhhh, this is one of the best episodes for Lennier, IMHO. He gets to be all awesome! He guesses that Delenn is trying to sneak away alone and he finds her and is all confident and convinces her that he won't let her go alone and, um, this is probably the episode where my subconscious made its quiet and slightly unnerving switch from wanting to hug him and give him cookies over to sort of loving him with a bizarre passion. He's just so fantastic here - quiet, yes, but so very loyal and determined and utterly willing to do anything for Delenn. I ship them so much. ♥

And Dukhat. Gah. So totally the world's scariest advisor, but also bad-ass, and my interpretation that Delenn had a crush on him probably comes a lot from my feeling that oh my god, how could she not? He's so fantastically larger-than-life and bold and clever and... agggggh. Minbari. I don't know what it is, but I seem to find half the damned species irresistibly attractive.

Delenn really did seem to be modeling her behavior with Lennier on Dukhat's behavior with her, and I think she always felt like she failed him by not being for him everything that Dukhat was for her, while at the same time Lennier seems to have all the same insane amounts of emotional baggage around his relationship with her that Delenn has with Dukhat. Judging by this triad and by the whole wacky thing with Neroon and Branmer and how jealous and weird and frankly slightly nuts Neroon was after Branmer's death, I'm thinking that the teacher/student relationship is a pretty damned big deal in Minbari culture. Like, if Dukhat hadn't died he would totally still be a major part of Delenn's life (thus leading to all sorts of hilarity, because that man would totally delight in tormenting Sheridan). And he and Lennier could have hung out, and Lennier could have gotten advice from him and I've thought this all through way too much. Because, as previously mentioned, I have a weird kink or something for the Minbari.

As for Marcus, I think we can safely say that he would quite like the modernists, yes, but more importantly? The man has the soul of an English major. One of the non-annoying ones, not like that guy who showed up in the other episode who was being all "I have a degree in literature" and I wanted to smack him over the head, or like Byron. Who is also the bad kind of English major.

[icepixie]

Which, okay, fine - she's not, she's a hybrid. Um. Which you would think would mean they'd be okay with her icky-hybrid-ness going off and marrying some Human so that she doesn't create more icky-hybrid Minbari.

Exactly! Also, I agree with your supposition that Kalenn was probably going to stuff her in a nunnery. And perhaps he was also thinking that because of her change, Delenn is no longer genetically compatible with other Minbari, so she couldn't have a kid with another Minbari?

This is pretty much Lennier's best episode, isn't it?

Haha, Delenn totally had a crush on Dukhat! I bet it didn't last very long, though, or things would've gotten really awkward in the however many years he was her mentor.

I'm thinking that the teacher/student relationship is a pretty damned big deal in Minbari culture.

I think you're totally right. There's also Delenn's whole attitude toward Draal; in fact, I'm not sure we're shown any Minbari/Minbari relationship that isn't teacher/studenty, aside from Neroon v. Delenn and Lennier.

not like that guy who showed up in the other episode who was being all "I have a degree in literature"

...? I'm totally blanking on this. Is it from S5?

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Maybe? That's one of the (many) weird things about her transformation, I think - are we meant to believe that the transformation sort of "knew" she'd need to reproduce with a Human? Is she now more Human than Minbari? Or would she be able to reproduce with either?

This is pretty much Lennier's best episode, isn't it?

I think it is, yeah. Which... it's sad to me, how little that's saying.

I bet it didn't last very long, though, or things would've gotten really awkward in the however many years he was her mentor.

Yeah, I figure it was the kind of thing that melted away over time... which presumably is why she wasn't concerned when she realized Lennier had a crush on her. She figured he'd get over it as he grew up, just like she did with her crush on Dukhat. The difference being that presumably she didn't have to hover around watching (and helping!) Dukhat woo his wife and all that, and Delenn is so absurdly confident in herself anyway that it's kind of hard to imagine her not getting over something like that as soon as it became clear it wasn't her Destiny. Poor Lennier.

I'm not sure we're shown any Minbari/Minbari relationship that isn't teacher/studenty, aside from Neroon v. Delenn and Lennier.

Well, we do get Delenn and Mayan (fellow students), and then there's the whole Branmer and Delenn thing, which is ambiguous (I don't think we're ever precisely let in on what Delenn's relationship to Branmer was). But yeah, the teacher/student thing does seem to be a major theme with them.

I'm totally blanking on this. Is it from S5?

I am, too, and I have absolutely no idea. All I remember is flailing about how annoying he was... at some point. I feel like he was one of the Humans who... deals with Sheridan... somehow. Eh, it doesn't matter. *Headdesk*

[icepixie]

Granted, I think this was entirely Peter David trying and not entirely succeeding at being funny, but thereis that bit at the end of "Soul Mates" where she asks Susan about these odd cramps she's been getting. Perhaps the new body's way of saying "O HAI YOU SHOULD MAKE A HUMAN BABY NOW"?

I tend to think that the change left her exactly half-Minbari, half-human, but this is based purely on my own interest in xenobiology. It would actually make more sense, from a "restoring the balance" perspective, if she visibly turned entirely human, seeing as Sinclair looked pretty Minbari.

which presumably is why she wasn't concerned when she realized Lennier had a crush on her.

Yeah. Poor, poor Lennier.

I am, too, and I have absolutely no idea. All I remember is flailing about how annoying he was... at some point. I feel like he was one of the Humans who... deals with Sheridan... somehow. Eh, it doesn't matter. *Headdesk*

*snerk* Well, I'll keep an eye out...

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

That bit always makes me kind of "argh, Peter David." I used to think he was hilarious when I was in my teens. Now, he just sort of makes me headdesk. But yeah, I agree with the interpretation that could have have well been her body being like "OH HAI, YOU CAN HAZ BABY." Which is funny considering how shocked both Franklin and Sheridan seemed by the possibility, when it happened.

I assume she's half-and-half as well for pretty much the same reasons. And really, all she's got left is the lacking eyebrows and the improbably-coiffed crest, in terms of visible features, so I figure that's okay. The balance thing is a bit odd, though, yeah - Sinclair really did look pretty much Minbari. That's one clever machine to know exactly how much of each species it needs to make each person look.

[icepixie]

Which is funny considering how shocked both Franklin and Sheridan seemed by the possibility, when it happened.

I always wondered about that. In this episode, Delenn seems to treat the idea that she can have children with a human as pretty matter of fact, and then in S5, they're all "Baby? Really?" Weird.

That's one clever machine to know exactly how much of each species it needs to make each person look.

So it is. Not to mention it's clever enough to never actually have been invented. Yeah, they say he got it from Episilon 3, but in WWE, I'm pretty sure it's in the box he left for his 2260 self to find. And of course it only got there because Sinclair took it from the box to take back with him to 1400 or whenever it was. *headdesk* Time loops. I hate 'em.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Delenn seems to treat the idea that she can have children with a human as pretty matter of fact, and then in S5, they're all "Baby? Really?" Weird.

Well, in fairness, it's Sheridan who seems most shell-shocked by the revelation in S5. Delenn just passes out, and Franklin says something like "I told you I wasn't sure if it was possible," after Sheridan seemed to say that he'd said it wasn't possible. Which makes me wonder if Sheridan misunderstood Franklin, or if Franklin was hedging his bets, or, possibly most likely, if Delenn pulled one of her famed lying-by-misdirection tricks and actually caused (inadvertently or otherwise) Sheridan to think they couldn't have kids. I'm not sure why she'd do it, but I wouldn't put it past her, either. Particularly if, say, Sheridan decided maybe he didn't want to deal with having kids yet, with everything about the Alliance being messy and early-days, while Delenn was like "damn it, we only have 20 years!!!"

Time loops. I hate 'em.

Maybe the Vorlons made it and left it on Epsilon 3 for Sinclair to find? With a tag on it that said "For Jeffrey Sinclair: Do not open until 2260."

[icepixie]

Yeah, I guess it is mostly Sheridan there. And while the idea of Delenn pulling the "of course I'm on birth control/we can't have kids" trick kind of horrifies me, I...can also see her doing it for exactly the reason you suggest.

(I will admit that Sheridan recording that message for his unborn kid because he's not going to see said kid live past eighteen brings me really, really close to tears. The reduced lifespan is far and away the aspect of Sheridan's character that makes me sympathize with him the most.)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

And while the idea of Delenn pulling the "of course I'm on birth control/we can't have kids" trick kind of horrifies me, I...can also see her doing it for exactly the reason you suggest.

Yup. I hesitated to mention the possibility because, seriously, how wrong can you GET, but... it's Delenn. And in my head, Delenn is always a little bit heavy-handed, high-and-mighty "I know so much better than you" about everything, and not at all above deception and outright lies to get what she wants and/or thinks is Right.

I will admit that Sheridan recording that message for his unborn kid because he's not going to see said kid live past eighteen brings me really, really close to tears.

Yeah, me too. I love that stupid scene. It's long and unwieldy and probably should have been edited, but oh my god I love it and it makes me want to hug Sheridan a lot. ...I also love that his first piece of advice to David is not so much "I'll always love you" or "always trust yourself," or even the "don't start a fight, but always finish it" thing from his dad... no, it's how David should always listen to Delenn, because she's scary awesome. Bless. ♥

[icepixie]

not at all above deception and outright lies to get what she wants and/or thinks is Right.

Yep. Absolutely.

I also love that his first piece of advice to David is not so much "I'll always love you" or "always trust yourself," or even the "don't start a fight, but always finish it" thing from his dad... no, it's how David should always listen to Delenn, because she's scary awesome.

Hee! Yes, I love that part as well.

[nhpw.livejournal.com]

Season 4, actually.

It was Wade, the guy who worked for Mr. Edgars, who brought Garibaldi to Mars. They were having a conversation in the tube about putting on the blindfold. "Nothing is real, except his blindfold." Or something. I wanted to hit him and I was not sad when he died.

The Exercise of Vital Powers, I think.

(Who, me? Obsessed? Nah...)

[icepixie]

Ohhhh, him. I remember him. Argh. Not looking forward to that part of the season...

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU! That was going to drive me crazy.

"Nothing is real," my ass. Damned post-modernists.

[icepixie]

Grrrr argh post-structuralism/pomo. The whole "everything is a signifier without any signifieds" does tend to make me want to punch someone. Some parts of the larger body of theory work for me, but that part drives me batshit. (BTW, if you haven't read A.S. Byatt's Possession you totally, totally should. She has a fantastic refutation of that part interwoven into the plot. Also of psychoanalytic criticism, which made me cheer a whole lot. Sometimes it is in fact just an irregularly-shaped pool with some moss around it!)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Okay, awesome! I've made a note of that title and author, will have to look it up. I like the idea of a novel with a refutation of certain aspects of theory built into it. Especially psychoanalytic criticism, because as hilarious as it can occasionally be, I've never really thought it yields much in the way of actual deeper understanding of a book. I mean, yes, swords are shaped like penises and caves are faintly vaginal in shape. We all know. Nothing else to offer? Then I'll be moving on, except for the purposes of mockery.

(In which vein, if you ever decide to re/watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I highly recommend keeping tabs on how many of the demons bear some resemblance to penises. It's highly entertaining, and I'm fairly sure most of it was intentional on Joss Whedon's part.)

[icepixie]

That novel is definitely in my top five, and may well be my most favorite novel ever. It is awesome.

Very, very occasionally I've run across some psychoanalytic criticism that has value. For Joyce it...kind of does, let's face it, and he pretty much acknowledges it himself. Beyond that, I really haven't found much use for it, and the amount of currency it still has irked me on a near-daily basis in some of my classes.

Oh, man, Buffy. There are approximately NINE KAJILLION reasons for me to like it, but for some reason I just can't get into it. I've given it like five chances, and Angel about three, and it's all just...there. I feel like there's so much awesome contained in it, if I could just figure out the code that would make me care. :( (I think it boils down to having issues about stories set in high school. Although that doesn't explain Angel, so I dunno.)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I think it boils down to having issues about stories set in high school. Although that doesn't explain Angel, so I dunno.

I can totally sympathize about the high school thing. I was really resistant to it for a long time, and pretty much got sucked in in the end because I have a thing for Anthony Stewart Head (Giles). *Shrugs* Like everything, it's not for everybody.

And yeah, the thing about psychoanalytic criticism is that it's applicable occasionally... which makes people think it's always applicable. Very frustrating.