B5 Rewatch: "Atonement"
Sep. 19th, 2010 12:57 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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thrace_ - Lovely, plotty Myka/H.G. Wells fic. I wish it were canon.
*
Atonement
In which we find out that Delenn is actually even more badass than we thought, and also have cause to re-evaluate every single thing she said or did over the past three years. Well played, JMS, well played. (Well. Aside from the whole "We must keep our race pure!" thing that pops up out of nowhere. Should this not perhaps have gotten a mention earlier in the series? Lennier might have said, "You know, the folks back home aren't really going to like you and Sheridan shackin' up, just sayin'..." Possibly this is raised in the brouhaha the Grey Council makes about Delenn's change, but I remember that as being more, "You egotistical upstart! How do you know the prophecy's about you?" than about racial purity.*)
Speaking of which, I kind of love how she's all, "It didn't show me what I want? Well, I'm going to go back in there and MAKE IT SHOW ME what I want it to!" You know, I think this is one of the things about Sheridan/Delenn that bugs me: they're presented basically as the immovable rock marrying the irresistible force, and yet does anyone actually believe Sheridan stands a chance of opposing her in any way? I mean, really. And yet she sometimes gets shunted into the girlfriend role--granted, I think she kind of prefers it because she likes being the power behind the throne, pulling Sheridan's puppet strings--but it irks me a lot, and it bleeds over into my perception of the relationship itself. I also tend to think there's more than a little truth to the idea that she's interested in him 'cause she wants to atone for her actions in the war. The title of this episode does not escape me.
(I keep thinking about how I would re-write this episode for my Susan/Delenn AU. Basically, Susan would meet her in the departure area and be like, "You're sneaking off in the middle of the night to go to Minbar and face up to this whackaloon racial purity council? Over my dead body." And Delenn would think, "You know, she figured out the whole thing where I started the war; I could probably use that information-ferreting quality of hers." And then they'd go up to her clan, and even before all the Random Room of Dry Ice business, tell them, "Do you really want us to tell everyone what we figured out about Valen and human DNA and pretty much the entire population of the planet? 'Cause we can do that." When Kalenn, or whatever his name was, makes noises about the ancient war bride practice, they'd both just give him Looks, and nothing more would need to be said. And then they'd leave, and Delenn's clan would never, ever talk about it again.)
Anyway, then Delenn finds out she's Sinclair's great-great-etc.-granddaughter. As if she didn't have enough DESTINY swirling about her already.
This episode is kind of all about Delenn's relationship with men, isn't it? Sinclair biologically, Sheridan romantically, Lennier and Dukhat...teacherly/studently. Er. I'm sure there's a better way to phrase that, but you know what I mean. Also, Lennier would quite like it to be romantically, and I can't blame him, as I totally ship him with Delenn a lot. Oh, Lennier.
Dukhat! Dukhat is really quite awesome. I love how much of Delenn's demeanor, especially with Lennier, we can now trace back to him. The obvious one is the "I cannot have an aide who will not look up" bit, but also her being on B5 in the first place is probably due to his influence, and his cultivation of her natural tendency toward curiosity. Dukhat actually makes me think "Scariest. Diss. Adviser. EVER," but you know he'd also be the one with students who are published prior to graduation and get tenure-track jobs immediately after they get their degree. They'd just be, you know, stressed-out alcoholics from the pressure of working with him.
Okay, I think that does it for the main plot. Only one other thing I want to comment on: Marcus's obvious preference for the Victorians. Okay, so he obviously had Pre-Raphaelite posters all over his walls as a kid, and no doubt memorized great chunks of Tennyson. I get why he'd be all over Dickens. (He's probably a huge Elizabeth Gaskell fan too.) But come on, man! Just move ahead a few decades and awesome awaits! I know you'd like Joyce. And probably Forster. You likely wouldn't know what to do with Woolf, though I think your lady-love would really get a kick out of Orlando. Here, let me start you off easy with some Celtic Twilight-era Yeats. I know you'll like that.
(Sorry, we had a little fake feud going on between the Victorianists and the Modernists/20th Century folks at my grad school, and sometimes you have to stick up for your side, you know?)
* I tend to read the Minbari attitude toward Minbari souls appearing in human bodies as more, "Really? Huh. That's interesting and kind of freaky; we should study it," than "OMG THE IMPURE!!1!!11!!eleventy!!!", though perhaps that was in fact meant to be the reading.
thrace_ - Lovely, plotty Myka/H.G. Wells fic. I wish it were canon.*
Atonement
In which we find out that Delenn is actually even more badass than we thought, and also have cause to re-evaluate every single thing she said or did over the past three years. Well played, JMS, well played. (Well. Aside from the whole "We must keep our race pure!" thing that pops up out of nowhere. Should this not perhaps have gotten a mention earlier in the series? Lennier might have said, "You know, the folks back home aren't really going to like you and Sheridan shackin' up, just sayin'..." Possibly this is raised in the brouhaha the Grey Council makes about Delenn's change, but I remember that as being more, "You egotistical upstart! How do you know the prophecy's about you?" than about racial purity.*)
Speaking of which, I kind of love how she's all, "It didn't show me what I want? Well, I'm going to go back in there and MAKE IT SHOW ME what I want it to!" You know, I think this is one of the things about Sheridan/Delenn that bugs me: they're presented basically as the immovable rock marrying the irresistible force, and yet does anyone actually believe Sheridan stands a chance of opposing her in any way? I mean, really. And yet she sometimes gets shunted into the girlfriend role--granted, I think she kind of prefers it because she likes being the power behind the throne, pulling Sheridan's puppet strings--but it irks me a lot, and it bleeds over into my perception of the relationship itself. I also tend to think there's more than a little truth to the idea that she's interested in him 'cause she wants to atone for her actions in the war. The title of this episode does not escape me.
(I keep thinking about how I would re-write this episode for my Susan/Delenn AU. Basically, Susan would meet her in the departure area and be like, "You're sneaking off in the middle of the night to go to Minbar and face up to this whackaloon racial purity council? Over my dead body." And Delenn would think, "You know, she figured out the whole thing where I started the war; I could probably use that information-ferreting quality of hers." And then they'd go up to her clan, and even before all the Random Room of Dry Ice business, tell them, "Do you really want us to tell everyone what we figured out about Valen and human DNA and pretty much the entire population of the planet? 'Cause we can do that." When Kalenn, or whatever his name was, makes noises about the ancient war bride practice, they'd both just give him Looks, and nothing more would need to be said. And then they'd leave, and Delenn's clan would never, ever talk about it again.)
Anyway, then Delenn finds out she's Sinclair's great-great-etc.-granddaughter. As if she didn't have enough DESTINY swirling about her already.
This episode is kind of all about Delenn's relationship with men, isn't it? Sinclair biologically, Sheridan romantically, Lennier and Dukhat...teacherly/studently. Er. I'm sure there's a better way to phrase that, but you know what I mean. Also, Lennier would quite like it to be romantically, and I can't blame him, as I totally ship him with Delenn a lot. Oh, Lennier.
Dukhat! Dukhat is really quite awesome. I love how much of Delenn's demeanor, especially with Lennier, we can now trace back to him. The obvious one is the "I cannot have an aide who will not look up" bit, but also her being on B5 in the first place is probably due to his influence, and his cultivation of her natural tendency toward curiosity. Dukhat actually makes me think "Scariest. Diss. Adviser. EVER," but you know he'd also be the one with students who are published prior to graduation and get tenure-track jobs immediately after they get their degree. They'd just be, you know, stressed-out alcoholics from the pressure of working with him.
Okay, I think that does it for the main plot. Only one other thing I want to comment on: Marcus's obvious preference for the Victorians. Okay, so he obviously had Pre-Raphaelite posters all over his walls as a kid, and no doubt memorized great chunks of Tennyson. I get why he'd be all over Dickens. (He's probably a huge Elizabeth Gaskell fan too.) But come on, man! Just move ahead a few decades and awesome awaits! I know you'd like Joyce. And probably Forster. You likely wouldn't know what to do with Woolf, though I think your lady-love would really get a kick out of Orlando. Here, let me start you off easy with some Celtic Twilight-era Yeats. I know you'll like that.
(Sorry, we had a little fake feud going on between the Victorianists and the Modernists/20th Century folks at my grad school, and sometimes you have to stick up for your side, you know?)
* I tend to read the Minbari attitude toward Minbari souls appearing in human bodies as more, "Really? Huh. That's interesting and kind of freaky; we should study it," than "OMG THE IMPURE!!1!!11!!eleventy!!!", though perhaps that was in fact meant to be the reading.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 07:34 pm (UTC)Exactly! Also, I agree with your supposition that Kalenn was probably going to stuff her in a nunnery. And perhaps he was also thinking that because of her change, Delenn is no longer genetically compatible with other Minbari, so she couldn't have a kid with another Minbari?
This is pretty much Lennier's best episode, isn't it?
Haha, Delenn totally had a crush on Dukhat! I bet it didn't last very long, though, or things would've gotten really awkward in the however many years he was her mentor.
I'm thinking that the teacher/student relationship is a pretty damned big deal in Minbari culture.
I think you're totally right. There's also Delenn's whole attitude toward Draal; in fact, I'm not sure we're shown any Minbari/Minbari relationship that isn't teacher/studenty, aside from Neroon v. Delenn and Lennier.
not like that guy who showed up in the other episode who was being all "I have a degree in literature"
...? I'm totally blanking on this. Is it from S5?
no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 07:45 pm (UTC)This is pretty much Lennier's best episode, isn't it?
I think it is, yeah. Which... it's sad to me, how little that's saying.
I bet it didn't last very long, though, or things would've gotten really awkward in the however many years he was her mentor.
Yeah, I figure it was the kind of thing that melted away over time... which presumably is why she wasn't concerned when she realized Lennier had a crush on her. She figured he'd get over it as he grew up, just like she did with her crush on Dukhat. The difference being that presumably she didn't have to hover around watching (and helping!) Dukhat woo his wife and all that, and Delenn is so absurdly confident in herself anyway that it's kind of hard to imagine her not getting over something like that as soon as it became clear it wasn't her Destiny. Poor Lennier.
I'm not sure we're shown any Minbari/Minbari relationship that isn't teacher/studenty, aside from Neroon v. Delenn and Lennier.
Well, we do get Delenn and Mayan (fellow students), and then there's the whole Branmer and Delenn thing, which is ambiguous (I don't think we're ever precisely let in on what Delenn's relationship to Branmer was). But yeah, the teacher/student thing does seem to be a major theme with them.
I'm totally blanking on this. Is it from S5?
I am, too, and I have absolutely no idea. All I remember is flailing about how annoying he was... at some point. I feel like he was one of the Humans who... deals with Sheridan... somehow. Eh, it doesn't matter. *Headdesk*
no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 08:41 pm (UTC)I tend to think that the change left her exactly half-Minbari, half-human, but this is based purely on my own interest in xenobiology. It would actually make more sense, from a "restoring the balance" perspective, if she visibly turned entirely human, seeing as Sinclair looked pretty Minbari.
which presumably is why she wasn't concerned when she realized Lennier had a crush on her.
Yeah. Poor, poor Lennier.
I am, too, and I have absolutely no idea. All I remember is flailing about how annoying he was... at some point. I feel like he was one of the Humans who... deals with Sheridan... somehow. Eh, it doesn't matter. *Headdesk*
*snerk* Well, I'll keep an eye out...
no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 09:06 pm (UTC)I assume she's half-and-half as well for pretty much the same reasons. And really, all she's got left is the lacking eyebrows and the improbably-coiffed crest, in terms of visible features, so I figure that's okay. The balance thing is a bit odd, though, yeah - Sinclair really did look pretty much Minbari. That's one clever machine to know exactly how much of each species it needs to make each person look.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 11:10 pm (UTC)I always wondered about that. In this episode, Delenn seems to treat the idea that she can have children with a human as pretty matter of fact, and then in S5, they're all "Baby? Really?" Weird.
That's one clever machine to know exactly how much of each species it needs to make each person look.
So it is. Not to mention it's clever enough to never actually have been invented. Yeah, they say he got it from Episilon 3, but in WWE, I'm pretty sure it's in the box he left for his 2260 self to find. And of course it only got there because Sinclair took it from the box to take back with him to 1400 or whenever it was. *headdesk* Time loops. I hate 'em.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 11:17 pm (UTC)Well, in fairness, it's Sheridan who seems most shell-shocked by the revelation in S5. Delenn just passes out, and Franklin says something like "I told you I wasn't sure if it was possible," after Sheridan seemed to say that he'd said it wasn't possible. Which makes me wonder if Sheridan misunderstood Franklin, or if Franklin was hedging his bets, or, possibly most likely, if Delenn pulled one of her famed lying-by-misdirection tricks and actually caused (inadvertently or otherwise) Sheridan to think they couldn't have kids. I'm not sure why she'd do it, but I wouldn't put it past her, either. Particularly if, say, Sheridan decided maybe he didn't want to deal with having kids yet, with everything about the Alliance being messy and early-days, while Delenn was like "damn it, we only have 20 years!!!"
Time loops. I hate 'em.
Maybe the Vorlons made it and left it on Epsilon 3 for Sinclair to find? With a tag on it that said "For Jeffrey Sinclair: Do not open until 2260."
no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 12:12 am (UTC)(I will admit that Sheridan recording that message for his unborn kid because he's not going to see said kid live past eighteen brings me really, really close to tears. The reduced lifespan is far and away the aspect of Sheridan's character that makes me sympathize with him the most.)
no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 12:21 am (UTC)Yup. I hesitated to mention the possibility because, seriously, how wrong can you GET, but... it's Delenn. And in my head, Delenn is always a little bit heavy-handed, high-and-mighty "I know so much better than you" about everything, and not at all above deception and outright lies to get what she wants and/or thinks is Right.
I will admit that Sheridan recording that message for his unborn kid because he's not going to see said kid live past eighteen brings me really, really close to tears.
Yeah, me too. I love that stupid scene. It's long and unwieldy and probably should have been edited, but oh my god I love it and it makes me want to hug Sheridan a lot. ...I also love that his first piece of advice to David is not so much "I'll always love you" or "always trust yourself," or even the "don't start a fight, but always finish it" thing from his dad... no, it's how David should always listen to Delenn, because she's
scaryawesome. Bless. ♥no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 01:25 am (UTC)Yep. Absolutely.
I also love that his first piece of advice to David is not so much "I'll always love you" or "always trust yourself," or even the "don't start a fight, but always finish it" thing from his dad... no, it's how David should always listen to Delenn, because she's
scaryawesome.Hee! Yes, I love that part as well.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 10:37 pm (UTC)It was Wade, the guy who worked for Mr. Edgars, who brought Garibaldi to Mars. They were having a conversation in the tube about putting on the blindfold. "Nothing is real, except his blindfold." Or something. I wanted to hit him and I was not sad when he died.
The Exercise of Vital Powers, I think.
(Who, me? Obsessed? Nah...)
no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 11:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 11:17 pm (UTC)"Nothing is real," my ass. Damned post-modernists.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 12:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 12:26 am (UTC)(In which vein, if you ever decide to re/watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I highly recommend keeping tabs on how many of the demons bear some resemblance to penises. It's highly entertaining, and I'm fairly sure most of it was intentional on Joss Whedon's part.)
no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 01:29 am (UTC)Very, very occasionally I've run across some psychoanalytic criticism that has value. For Joyce it...kind of does, let's face it, and he pretty much acknowledges it himself. Beyond that, I really haven't found much use for it, and the amount of currency it still has irked me on a near-daily basis in some of my classes.
Oh, man, Buffy. There are approximately NINE KAJILLION reasons for me to like it, but for some reason I just can't get into it. I've given it like five chances, and Angel about three, and it's all just...there. I feel like there's so much awesome contained in it, if I could just figure out the code that would make me care. :( (I think it boils down to having issues about stories set in high school. Although that doesn't explain Angel, so I dunno.)
no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 03:03 am (UTC)I can totally sympathize about the high school thing. I was really resistant to it for a long time, and pretty much got sucked in in the end because I have a thing for Anthony Stewart Head (Giles). *Shrugs* Like everything, it's not for everybody.
And yeah, the thing about psychoanalytic criticism is that it's applicable occasionally... which makes people think it's always applicable. Very frustrating.