Fringe: "Concentrate and Ask Again"
Feb. 4th, 2011 09:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
icepixieOh, Fringe. Sweetheart. You are perilously fucking close to jumping the shark right now, JUST SO YOU KNOW.
First, there's Nina telling Olivia to talk to Peter about her feeeeeelings. I know Nina has other sides to her besides "badass," but this seemed...not exactly in character. (I miss her being vaguely evil, what can I say.)
But whatever, I could just take that as Nina showing an increased amount of concern. I mean, it's not like she hasn't been concerned over Olivia's emotional welfare before. And although Peter and Olivia talking about their feeeelings did get a bit awkward, a.) shit, it's impressive that anyone on American TV actually does so instead of just ignoring it and letting things fester, and b.) not much other way to wade through the issues surrounding that.
HOWEVER. Which universe the machine destroys depends on which Olivia Peter chooses? Fail. Fail SO, SO HARD. SO MUCH FAIL. They just reduced the fate of the universe into a question of which girl the guy is going to pick, because of course it's the guy's decision which is of paramount importance and the girls are just the objects. NOT ON, SHOW.
I think it galls so much because otherwise, the show is FUCKING AWESOMELY FEMINIST, and Olivia really has agency all throughout. Now, poof, it's gone. I mean, it's gone until they find another way around this in which both Olivias get to be active agents, WHICH THEY'D BETTER. (Heh. It just occurred to me that this show is perhaps the only one I've ever watched where "threesome!" is both a legitimate solution and one that canon might just go with.)
Arrrrggghhhh. I am so disappointed. Next week better fix this pronto. Apparently we're going back to the other universe? That should be entertaining, anyway.
Um, a couple other things: Sam wrote the First People book! I figured as much. This should be interesting. I have a feeling his mention of the machine's ability to both create and destroy is going to be relevant. (Though if it means Fauxlivia is pregnant, I'm not sure I can be responsible for my actions.)
What, no reference to Peter's "touched" nature? I suppose without shapeshifters, he didn't have any reason to act allevil focused.
Hey, it's Martouf! Aw, I kind of love seeing who pops up on all the sci-fi shows that film in Vancouver.
First, there's Nina telling Olivia to talk to Peter about her feeeeeelings. I know Nina has other sides to her besides "badass," but this seemed...not exactly in character. (I miss her being vaguely evil, what can I say.)
But whatever, I could just take that as Nina showing an increased amount of concern. I mean, it's not like she hasn't been concerned over Olivia's emotional welfare before. And although Peter and Olivia talking about their feeeelings did get a bit awkward, a.) shit, it's impressive that anyone on American TV actually does so instead of just ignoring it and letting things fester, and b.) not much other way to wade through the issues surrounding that.
HOWEVER. Which universe the machine destroys depends on which Olivia Peter chooses? Fail. Fail SO, SO HARD. SO MUCH FAIL. They just reduced the fate of the universe into a question of which girl the guy is going to pick, because of course it's the guy's decision which is of paramount importance and the girls are just the objects. NOT ON, SHOW.
I think it galls so much because otherwise, the show is FUCKING AWESOMELY FEMINIST, and Olivia really has agency all throughout. Now, poof, it's gone. I mean, it's gone until they find another way around this in which both Olivias get to be active agents, WHICH THEY'D BETTER. (Heh. It just occurred to me that this show is perhaps the only one I've ever watched where "threesome!" is both a legitimate solution and one that canon might just go with.)
Arrrrggghhhh. I am so disappointed. Next week better fix this pronto. Apparently we're going back to the other universe? That should be entertaining, anyway.
Um, a couple other things: Sam wrote the First People book! I figured as much. This should be interesting. I have a feeling his mention of the machine's ability to both create and destroy is going to be relevant. (Though if it means Fauxlivia is pregnant, I'm not sure I can be responsible for my actions.)
What, no reference to Peter's "touched" nature? I suppose without shapeshifters, he didn't have any reason to act all
Hey, it's Martouf! Aw, I kind of love seeing who pops up on all the sci-fi shows that film in Vancouver.
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no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 03:56 am (UTC)Olivia and Nina had a conversation last season, can't remember the specific episode, about Olivia's feelings for Peter, a conversation that Nina initiated. So it's not totally out of character?
Yeah...I am half and half on the Peter's love decides the fate of the universes thing. I mean, I think thematically it ties back to a lot of stuff, like Peter's heart being super-important back in Brown Betty, but it just seems a little...pat. I'm not quite ready to call it feminist fail just because the show has such a good track record on that score and I'd like to give it the benefit of the doubt, but...yeah.
I mean, as much as the show before this point has been driven by Olivia and her agency and baggage and decisions &c, Peter's been a kind of passive character throughout, really. I'm not automatically against him taking a turn driving the car. And, like, Peter pretty much was the object that drove the plot for the entirety of the back half of S2. It's kinda like that discussion we were having about B5, about what constituted gender fail and what didn't - the idea that male characters could do this or that and it was just writing, but if female characters did the same this or that it was gender fail. I mean, I totally reserve the right to change my mind depending on what happens next (and also because TV in general just doesn't have the greatest track record on this kind of thing), but I'm not ready to condemn the show just yet.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 04:10 am (UTC)Ohhhh, right, I vaguely remember that. Yeah, of my three o_O moments, that was the least o_O anyway.
I think the difference (for me) in how Peter was objectified in S2 and how Olivia is objectified here is that "father replacing a child with one from another universe" isn't as common of a trope as "important guy choosing between two girls," and isn't tied up in a history of uncomfortable gender roles. I do think the Fringe folks will be able to write their way out of this in a manner that satisfies all of the characters, but I'm unhappy that they've given me cause to doubt it even for one week.
(It does tie in nicely with Peter's heart from "Brown Betty," but still...I feel like there are other ways that could've related.)
no subject
Date: 2011-02-07 01:27 am (UTC)This is absolutely right. I took a computer sabbatical this weekend, and rewatched the episode, and I'm finding myself in the position of not disagreeing with anyone's critiques...and yet still being okay with it. I didn't know why I was okay with it Friday night, which is why I was posting kind of knee-jerk defenses here and there.
I think, for me, the idea that the fate of the two universes boils down to Peter's choice just has this sort of mythic quality that I like. And I feel bad for liking it knowing full well it's problematic? IDK.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-07 04:07 am (UTC)*shrug* Hey, if you like it, you like it. Don't feel bad. I don't want to police individuals for what they like; I just want to rant at shows when they don't live up to my expectations. ;)
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 04:13 am (UTC)Maybe the whole thing will actually boil down to Peter figuring out a way to NOT destroy one or the other, with the point being that he's somehow above the either/or of the device? And the high probability of both worlds working together to make it happen? I have no idea; I'm just going with the idea that the writers are actually smarter than reducing the whole thing to Which Girl Does He Like Better. Ooh, look at me being all optimistic-like...
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 04:21 am (UTC)The more I think about it, the more I want Peter to basically take a step back and go, "Hang on. I was with one of them for two months, and she wasn't even who I thought she was, and I've barely even kissed the other one. This is ridiculous!" And then go on to transcend the either/or thing. Because I mean really.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 05:49 am (UTC)"Concentrate and Ask Again"
OH! Magic 8-ball! I get it now! *facepalm* I guess I'm more tired than I thought...
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 06:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 04:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 09:11 pm (UTC)My brain keeps going back to Peter-as-Jesus, so perhaps he'll "die" (or something like it) to save the universes...
And also, I keep getting hung up on the "CREATE or destroy". If he makes a THIRD universe, would it potentially serve as sort of a buffer for the other two? Like, it would be hellaciously unstable but allow the other two to exist peacefully?
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 11:46 pm (UTC)Ooooh. Now that would be interesting.
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Date: 2011-06-07 01:31 am (UTC)AUUUUUUGHHHHH. I was with it right up until that point: I was thinking, "Okay, so Peter's mindset determines how the machine works, so if he's all rage-y, ka-boom, but if he's feeling luuurrrrrve, the machine will create rainbows and puppies, okay." But then Sam turned it into Epic Girlfriend Dilemma, and... ugh. Maybe they will find a way to turn the device to The Powers Of Good? (Ooh, I bet the "create" part will end up healing all the bashed-up bits of Red Universe!)
Also, I wanted to shout at the screen, "OLIVIA STOP WHINING AND GO AFTER THE BOY. FAUXYOU SEDUCED HIM IN UNDER A MONTH I'M SURE YOU CAN DO BETTER. YOU TOO CAN HAVE A VAGENDA. ALSO TRY TALKING TO PETER DIRECTLY RATHER THAN GETTING RELATIONSHIP ADVICE FROM MENTALLY UNSOUND PSYCHICS." Grarrrrrrrrgh!
(And Olivia, stop patronizing a man with debilitating social anxiety.)
I appreciate that Olivia is getting all emo and inferiority complex-y about Fauxlivia being Superlivia, but girl needs to snap out of it and go back to being awesomesauce.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 05:18 am (UTC)You might say there's a "creation" aspect of the machine. It's not exactly what you're thinking, though.
YOU TOO CAN HAVE A VAGENDA.
YOU REALLY CAN. (P.S. How so awesome with the vocabulary, show?)
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 05:48 am (UTC)OH DEAR LORD PLEASE SAY THERE'S NOT BABIES.
(P.S. How so awesome with the vocabulary, show?)
I'm just lucky I wasn't drinking anything at the time.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 05:48 pm (UTC)The machine does not specifically create a baby as such, no.
(This does not necessarily mean that something/someone else couldn't create a baby. There may or may not be children. I'm trying not to spoil you by covering all my bases. It's possible this is a cunning piece of misdirection.)
I'm just lucky I wasn't drinking anything at the time.
For this and the gross-out factor, I try to avoid consuming any food or drink while watching this show...
no subject
Date: 2011-06-09 03:56 am (UTC)Aww, thanks for your attempts at evil misinformation!
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Date: 2011-06-09 10:01 pm (UTC)