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icepixieI rewatched the Fringe pilot (aka "the episode where everyone hates on Olivia") this week. Oh man, it is such a different experience after three seasons of the show!
I remember having a lot of respect for Olivia's sheer tenacity and brazenness in this episode, but also thinking something along the lines of, "eh, another badass genre woman who has trouble expressing her emotions; I'll probably end up liking her, especially after that one thing she did, but couldn't they do something else? Also, that actress isn't bad, but I wish she'd be a little less flat. It must be the stress of hiding her obvious non-American accent." And then they spent three years turning Olivia into one of my favorite characters EVER, with a depth of characterization that regularly astounds me. (Not to mention a plot-relevant explanation for why she's so closed-off!) Plus, I cannot imagine how I ever thought of Anna Torv as anything less than a subtle, heartbreaking GENIUS.
I like how, at least once she's told him she was bluffing about his FBI file ("the one thing she did" that I sat up and took notice of in the pilot), Olivia and Peter really seem to just naturally click here. In the little breather moments, they've got this instant rapport that's hard to describe, but feels very easy, like they'd known each other much longer than a couple days. I remember thinking something like this at the time, but it's only gotten more obvious now that I know the show didn't fool around with a will they/won't they plot between them, but let what was obviously there from the beginning progress at a believable pace until we got the EPIC, UNIVERSE-CROSSING romance by the end of S2. The dynamic always struck me as akin to "Olivia marries into the Bishop family business and learns exactly how odd her new family is" (even though she was really the one in charge), and it seems even more so now.
Speaking of both romance and things that carried through from the pilot, I just realized how significant it was that Olivia was the first to say "I love you" in her relationship with Peter, given that she couldn't bring herself to say it to John Scott even though she wanted to. (I watched all of S1 and S2 in under a month, okay? I missed some stuff. *g*) And...okay, I know this sounds a bit dumb, but it's true--after "The Day We Died," I was so obsessed with the intellectual ramifications of Peter's erasure, such as what would have changed in everyone else's life, why the war between the two universes would be going on, how the bridge came to exist without Peter there to make it, and most importantly how on Earth the writers planned to get him back, that I never really let the emotional consequences sink in. And now it just hit me that the three years Olivia had with Peter, and that "I love you," have all been ERASED. And my reaction is now basically, "God damn you, writers, you GIVE THAT BACK TO HER RIGHT NOW!"Just, you know, five months late.
Given the rest of the show, a line that struck me now but didn't back then was Nina's "I would say this to my own daughter: Be careful. And good luck." Coupled with her insistence in "Peter" that Blue!Peter was important to her, I wonder if there's more to be told in regards to her relationship with the Bishops and maybe even Olivia. One of the things that I think the show could do better, after giving Astrid more development, is incorporating Nina more thoroughly. I loved how subtly malevolent she was in S1. When I watched "Peter" for the first time, I apparently came up with the theory that because "in vitro fertilization" was one of the fringe sciences listed in the retro credits, perhaps Walter and Elizabeth were infertile, and Nina was an egg donor for them. I suppose this could still be true, but at this point, I doubt it. I do look forward to her eventual return in the Amberverse, though.
Shorter thoughts:
Charlie! Ohhhh, Charlie, I miss you. I still think the show's structure gelled better once he was gone, because you didn't have Peter basically made redundant both in the field and in the lab thanks to Charlie and Astrid, but he was such a good character. Scarlie is fun, but not quite the same.
Did we ever find out what John Scott and his cronies were up to? Fringepedia suggests no, but I truly don't remember. I suppose they could come back to it in the Amberverse, but it would probably be best if they didn't; that turned out to be kind of boring anyway.
DUUUUUDE, I just realized that the translucent shapeshifters from this season's opener look exactly like the translucentified people on the plane, and Scott! ...That was totally obvious to everyone but me, wasn't it? Anyway, that's deft. If it turns out to be an important plot point later on, that's deft on the same level as them finding the bus full of ambered people in 1x03 and then discovering amber comes from the other universe in season three.
Pssst, mine flisters who want a new sci-fi show (or just an AWESOME show), let me hook you on this one! You won't regret it. :D
I remember having a lot of respect for Olivia's sheer tenacity and brazenness in this episode, but also thinking something along the lines of, "eh, another badass genre woman who has trouble expressing her emotions; I'll probably end up liking her, especially after that one thing she did, but couldn't they do something else? Also, that actress isn't bad, but I wish she'd be a little less flat. It must be the stress of hiding her obvious non-American accent." And then they spent three years turning Olivia into one of my favorite characters EVER, with a depth of characterization that regularly astounds me. (Not to mention a plot-relevant explanation for why she's so closed-off!) Plus, I cannot imagine how I ever thought of Anna Torv as anything less than a subtle, heartbreaking GENIUS.
I like how, at least once she's told him she was bluffing about his FBI file ("the one thing she did" that I sat up and took notice of in the pilot), Olivia and Peter really seem to just naturally click here. In the little breather moments, they've got this instant rapport that's hard to describe, but feels very easy, like they'd known each other much longer than a couple days. I remember thinking something like this at the time, but it's only gotten more obvious now that I know the show didn't fool around with a will they/won't they plot between them, but let what was obviously there from the beginning progress at a believable pace until we got the EPIC, UNIVERSE-CROSSING romance by the end of S2. The dynamic always struck me as akin to "Olivia marries into the Bishop family business and learns exactly how odd her new family is" (even though she was really the one in charge), and it seems even more so now.
Speaking of both romance and things that carried through from the pilot, I just realized how significant it was that Olivia was the first to say "I love you" in her relationship with Peter, given that she couldn't bring herself to say it to John Scott even though she wanted to. (I watched all of S1 and S2 in under a month, okay? I missed some stuff. *g*) And...okay, I know this sounds a bit dumb, but it's true--after "The Day We Died," I was so obsessed with the intellectual ramifications of Peter's erasure, such as what would have changed in everyone else's life, why the war between the two universes would be going on, how the bridge came to exist without Peter there to make it, and most importantly how on Earth the writers planned to get him back, that I never really let the emotional consequences sink in. And now it just hit me that the three years Olivia had with Peter, and that "I love you," have all been ERASED. And my reaction is now basically, "God damn you, writers, you GIVE THAT BACK TO HER RIGHT NOW!"
Given the rest of the show, a line that struck me now but didn't back then was Nina's "I would say this to my own daughter: Be careful. And good luck." Coupled with her insistence in "Peter" that Blue!Peter was important to her, I wonder if there's more to be told in regards to her relationship with the Bishops and maybe even Olivia. One of the things that I think the show could do better, after giving Astrid more development, is incorporating Nina more thoroughly. I loved how subtly malevolent she was in S1. When I watched "Peter" for the first time, I apparently came up with the theory that because "in vitro fertilization" was one of the fringe sciences listed in the retro credits, perhaps Walter and Elizabeth were infertile, and Nina was an egg donor for them. I suppose this could still be true, but at this point, I doubt it. I do look forward to her eventual return in the Amberverse, though.
Shorter thoughts:
Charlie! Ohhhh, Charlie, I miss you. I still think the show's structure gelled better once he was gone, because you didn't have Peter basically made redundant both in the field and in the lab thanks to Charlie and Astrid, but he was such a good character. Scarlie is fun, but not quite the same.
Did we ever find out what John Scott and his cronies were up to? Fringepedia suggests no, but I truly don't remember. I suppose they could come back to it in the Amberverse, but it would probably be best if they didn't; that turned out to be kind of boring anyway.
DUUUUUDE, I just realized that the translucent shapeshifters from this season's opener look exactly like the translucentified people on the plane, and Scott! ...That was totally obvious to everyone but me, wasn't it? Anyway, that's deft. If it turns out to be an important plot point later on, that's deft on the same level as them finding the bus full of ambered people in 1x03 and then discovering amber comes from the other universe in season three.
Pssst, mine flisters who want a new sci-fi show (or just an AWESOME show), let me hook you on this one! You won't regret it. :D
no subject
Date: 2011-10-14 06:14 am (UTC)So very amazing, yes.
There's been a lot of reviews and essays calling Fringe "The X-Files Lite," but I think in this respect, Fringe is the far superior show. As much as I loved Mulder and Scully, in a lot of ways, they were essentially static characters, though Scully did loosen up toward the end.
I have many FEEEELINGS about the XF comparisons. Like, I see where they come from (especially in S1; the show definitely owes a lot to XF in S1), but after that, it grows so different, it's hard for me to even think of them as similar. The philosophies behind each show are pretty much polar opposites: XF is very conspiracy-oriented, everyone's out to get us, the little guy will never win, never-ending darkness, while Fringe is much more about lights in the darkness, working together to save the universes, hope and love in the face of despair.
Structurally, Fringe's mytharc blows XF's out of the water. It actually appears to have been planned from the beginning (or near the beginning), it makes sense, and it's all about how the characters' choices, both in the 1980s and now, have been and continue to drive events. XF, on the other hand, was mostly M&S reacting to the newest piece of information TPTB were trying to keep from them--which, granted, in so far as Carter obviously wanted to create an atmosphere of paranoia and to drag his audience along on M&S's journey of being persecuted, this works pretty well, even if it gets quite repetitive around S5 or so. The reaction-oriented arc, though, makes it more difficult to engage with the show, and since nothing M&S did seemed to change anything, it made it more difficult for them to grow. IMO, anyway.
I do think Scully had an interesting journey--I was always fond of her religious journey in particular, and how her faith worked with and against her skepticism--but it took her nine years to accomplish as much development as Olivia has had in three.
(On the other hand, XF did better standalones, on average. But I'd much prefer better mytharc, less good standalones.)
I have a friend who watched the pilot and HATED Anna Torv, hated her so much she refused to watch another episode.
That is so sad. :(
Because you know the original writers had no intention of doing anything else with the amber.
I do get the impression that the creators wanted it to be more procedural than it ultimately became. Thank god they left, because if it was all like the first half of S1, I would never have stuck with it.
At the time, I didn't actually think dropping John Scott was weird. I think I remembered him sometime in S2, went "huh," and then promptly forgot him again, to the point where when Olivia was referring to having lost her partner three years ago in "Neither Here Nor There," I thought she was talking about Charlie and had to be reminded of Scott's existence by
no subject
Date: 2011-10-14 06:31 pm (UTC)Scully did have a great character arc, but it was inconsistent in how it was portrayed. I mean, as much as I love the MOTWs, they often used the stock M&S characters, you know? A lot of the straightforward MOTWs, the Mulder and Scully investigating them in S2 weren't hugely different from the Mulder and Scully investigating them in S7, at least on a basic character level. In more personal episodes or in mytharc episodes, absolutely Scully was demonstrably a different character. But a lot of later eps, pre-Doggett (where everything went topsy-turvy and I'd rather just not talk about it), many many Act Ones still relied on Mulder going "it might be this crazy thing!" and Scully going "but science!"
Totally agree with you on the differences between XF and Fringe's mytharcs. Part of it is just the difference in when the shows aired. I remember the early 90s as being really super into conspiracies and all that, so a show where the protagonists were in the dark railing against unseen yet hugely powerful forces really tapped into that. But I think some of it is just that TV is far more serialized these days. I mean, XF mytharcs were usually only the season premieres and finales, and a two-parter during February sweeps. They weren't a long consistent storyline the way Fringe does. I definitely have way more respect for what Fringe is able to pull off, and especially the way the writers drop little mytharc tidbits into other seemingly MOTW episodes.
Wow, talky meat.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-15 03:43 am (UTC)Pretty much. The FBI angle probably adds, too.
I mean, as much as I love the MOTWs, they often used the stock M&S characters, you know?
Yeah, I can see that. Like you said earlier, Scully is less uptight in later seasons, but...yeah, they were kind of locked into skeptic/believer roles for the entire show as far as the MOTW episodes went.
Part of it is just the difference in when the shows aired.
Definitely. XF is very Gen X, and Fringe is way more Gen Y (in so far as the two generations are popularly characterized as individualistic vs. team-oriented).
To be honest, considering how lame the XF mytharc ending up being, I'm kinda glad serialized TV wasn't in vogue when it was airing. Then we would've had to suffer through more of it...
I definitely have way more respect for what Fringe is able to pull off, and especially the way the writers drop little mytharc tidbits into other seemingly MOTW episodes.
Me too. I'm not sure they've ever just done a straight MOTW. Maybe way back in S1 or something.
Wow, talky meat.
I meant to say, yes, definitely. I've been craving meta for all my shows lately, but especially Fringe. Maybe it's just because the B5 rewatch is over, but I feel like show-specific meta on LJ has all but disappeared, at least on my flist. So thank you! :)
no subject
Date: 2011-10-15 03:35 am (UTC)YES! You've put into words exactly what always subconsciously bothered me about all that mytharc crap! The simultaneous terror and monotony of paranoia was very well done, but awful for long-term growth and development. And for, you know, not wanting to turn off the tv and go chug bleach. And then Doggett and Reyes happened, and nothing was ever canon again. If only they'd done more episodes involving Mulder getting drugged and chasing after trailer-park vampires... those were the days.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-15 04:02 am (UTC)The simultaneous terror and monotony of paranoia was very well done, but awful for long-term growth and development.
Yeah, there is kind of...only one place you can be with that. You can't go anywhere else.
And for, you know, not wanting to turn off the tv and go chug bleach.
This too. Eventually I was like, "...I'll come back when you get the proof you've been looking for."
And then Doggett and Reyes happened, and nothing was ever canon again.
Reyes was actually kind of a redeeming feature for me. I skipped S8 (Scully pregnant = no), but I came back for S9 because I thought she was kinda fun. I wish they had just ended XF in S7, and done a Doggett- and Reyes-centered spinoff that was just about them investigating MOTWs. I would've watched that.
If only they'd done more episodes involving Mulder getting drugged and chasing after trailer-park vampires... those were the days.
If only...sigh...
no subject
Date: 2011-10-16 03:33 am (UTC)Especially not for nine years.
This too. Eventually I was like, "...I'll come back when you get the proof you've been looking for."
Really the only bright spots were M&S's partnership and their allies, and the sense of "Yes, we handful of individuals will fight the good fight in whatever tiny and doomed ways we can," but... in retrospect it wasn't a cheery show.
I rejected Reyes on the grounds that she was not Scully, and never really gave her a chance. I came back in bits and pieces, whenever it looked like there would be a bit of Scully or Mulder guest-starring. It was always disappointing, though.
I wish they had just ended XF in S7, and done a Doggett- and Reyes-centered spinoff that was just about them investigating MOTWs.
That would've been a better decision in many, many ways. It was basically what they did do, but if they had made the separation cleaner and clearer, everybody would've benefited.
If only...sigh..
"Shooting out tires on a moving vehicle is actually a lot harder than it looks!"
no subject
Date: 2011-10-16 07:41 pm (UTC)It's not even the fact that it wasn't a cheery show that bothered me, it was that it stayed the same brand of not-cheery for nine years. One little success now and again would not have hurt them!
I rejected Reyes on the grounds that she was not Scully, and never really gave her a chance.
Awww. She was just starting to get interesting when the show ended, I thought. Kind of like Mulder, but not so damn angsty. And her and Doggett had an intriguing relationship; complicated by her being the investigator when his son was kidnapped, but still less tense than M&S.
It was basically what they did do, but if they had made the separation cleaner and clearer, everybody would've benefited.
Yes. As good as it is to have a Scully around, she really didn't need to be around for those seasons.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-17 03:06 am (UTC)I feel like they did have little successes now and then, but they got all washed away in the sea of hopeless persecution. :/
And her and Doggett
I reeeeaally resented Doggett for being not!Mulder, to the point where I couldn't even pay attention to what he was saying. Bleh. Also, he conveniently carried over Mulder's missing-relative blahblahblah, and... eh.