Ramblings

[icepixie]

I rewatched the Fringe pilot (aka "the episode where everyone hates on Olivia") this week. Oh man, it is such a different experience after three seasons of the show!

I remember having a lot of respect for Olivia's sheer tenacity and brazenness in this episode, but also thinking something along the lines of, "eh, another badass genre woman who has trouble expressing her emotions; I'll probably end up liking her, especially after that one thing she did, but couldn't they do something else? Also, that actress isn't bad, but I wish she'd be a little less flat. It must be the stress of hiding her obvious non-American accent." And then they spent three years turning Olivia into one of my favorite characters EVER, with a depth of characterization that regularly astounds me. (Not to mention a plot-relevant explanation for why she's so closed-off!) Plus, I cannot imagine how I ever thought of Anna Torv as anything less than a subtle, heartbreaking GENIUS.

I like how, at least once she's told him she was bluffing about his FBI file ("the one thing she did" that I sat up and took notice of in the pilot), Olivia and Peter really seem to just naturally click here. In the little breather moments, they've got this instant rapport that's hard to describe, but feels very easy, like they'd known each other much longer than a couple days. I remember thinking something like this at the time, but it's only gotten more obvious now that I know the show didn't fool around with a will they/won't they plot between them, but let what was obviously there from the beginning progress at a believable pace until we got the EPIC, UNIVERSE-CROSSING romance by the end of S2. The dynamic always struck me as akin to "Olivia marries into the Bishop family business and learns exactly how odd her new family is" (even though she was really the one in charge), and it seems even more so now.

Speaking of both romance and things that carried through from the pilot, I just realized how significant it was that Olivia was the first to say "I love you" in her relationship with Peter, given that she couldn't bring herself to say it to John Scott even though she wanted to. (I watched all of S1 and S2 in under a month, okay? I missed some stuff. *g*) And...okay, I know this sounds a bit dumb, but it's true--after "The Day We Died," I was so obsessed with the intellectual ramifications of Peter's erasure, such as what would have changed in everyone else's life, why the war between the two universes would be going on, how the bridge came to exist without Peter there to make it, and most importantly how on Earth the writers planned to get him back, that I never really let the emotional consequences sink in. And now it just hit me that the three years Olivia had with Peter, and that "I love you," have all been ERASED. And my reaction is now basically, "God damn you, writers, you GIVE THAT BACK TO HER RIGHT NOW!" Just, you know, five months late.

Given the rest of the show, a line that struck me now but didn't back then was Nina's "I would say this to my own daughter: Be careful. And good luck." Coupled with her insistence in "Peter" that Blue!Peter was important to her, I wonder if there's more to be told in regards to her relationship with the Bishops and maybe even Olivia. One of the things that I think the show could do better, after giving Astrid more development, is incorporating Nina more thoroughly. I loved how subtly malevolent she was in S1. When I watched "Peter" for the first time, I apparently came up with the theory that because "in vitro fertilization" was one of the fringe sciences listed in the retro credits, perhaps Walter and Elizabeth were infertile, and Nina was an egg donor for them. I suppose this could still be true, but at this point, I doubt it. I do look forward to her eventual return in the Amberverse, though.

Shorter thoughts:

Charlie! Ohhhh, Charlie, I miss you. I still think the show's structure gelled better once he was gone, because you didn't have Peter basically made redundant both in the field and in the lab thanks to Charlie and Astrid, but he was such a good character. Scarlie is fun, but not quite the same.

Did we ever find out what John Scott and his cronies were up to? Fringepedia suggests no, but I truly don't remember. I suppose they could come back to it in the Amberverse, but it would probably be best if they didn't; that turned out to be kind of boring anyway.

DUUUUUDE, I just realized that the translucent shapeshifters from this season's opener look exactly like the translucentified people on the plane, and Scott! ...That was totally obvious to everyone but me, wasn't it? Anyway, that's deft. If it turns out to be an important plot point later on, that's deft on the same level as them finding the bus full of ambered people in 1x03 and then discovering amber comes from the other universe in season three.



Pssst, mine flisters who want a new sci-fi show (or just an AWESOME show), let me hook you on this one! You won't regret it. :D

Comments

[foursweatervests]

I'm up to 2x21. I am SO EXCITED by this show.

[icepixie]

!!!

!!!!!

!!!!!!!

Isn't it amazing? I think it's one of the best-written shows I've ever seen on TV, combined with some freaking incredible acting. (Especially once the alternates get involved!)

[foursweatervests]

Oh, man, I haven't seen the alternates yet (except for Walternate, really) and it's still absolutely amazing. Funnily enough, I went through the same process you did during the pilot with Olivia initially, except I took a couple of years between watching the pilot and deciding to keep going. /0\ Just think of all the years of fun I missed out on! But I love how it doesn't take itself too seriously and at the same time really does have some of the best writing on television. (Which, that's probably a factor.) I hope it's on for a million years.

[icepixie]

Oh, man, I haven't seen the alternates yet (except for Walternate, really) and it's still absolutely amazing.

Eeek! Well, I will try not to spoil you, then, because you have much awesome coming up. (And I have a feeling a couple things about S3 will play much, much better when you don't have to wait a week between episodes...)

Funnily enough, I went through the same process you did during the pilot with Olivia initially

It seems like a lot of people did. That was some stealthy character development on the writers' parts.

I hope it's on for a million years.

Me too, but given the ratings, I'm preparing myself for this to be the last season. *sigh*

[foursweatervests]

It's only getting better. If season 4 is the last season and I'm not even in the States to enjoy it? There will be crying.

[icepixie]

There is some kind of crazy voodoo going on between the show's ratings, its slot on Fridays, and the obvious fact that Kevin Reilly at Fox loves it. It got an early renewal last year while averaging a 1.5 in the 18-49 demo, and there were press releases saying the network was happy if they kept that. This year, they've been averaging a 1.3, and last week pulled a 1.2, none of which looks good, especially because this season will put it over the 80 episodes needed for syndication deals. On the other hand, everything else Fox has had in its timeslot for the past few years has done even worse, so...maybe they'll keep it there if it can stay over 1.0? There's also been some talk from the network that with ratings monsters like Glee and American Idol, they can afford to keep some low-rated but critically-acclaimed shows around to add quality to their brand. And the DVR numbers are insanely good--they more than double the amount of people watching the show live. These don't count for ad money--yet--but Reilly seems big into getting them to count, so he may be thinking of Fringe as Exhibit A in his case.

So I don't have my hopes up, but I didn't have them up last year and got an incredibly pleasant surprise, so maybe this year will be the same!

[foursweatervests]

Oh, god. Do they count iTunes downloads in the ratings? Because I'll start ::cough::legally::cough:: watching Fringe if that means another year.

[icepixie]

My understanding is that money from DVD and iTunes sales goes directly to the studio (Warner Brothers, in this case), and the more money they make that way, the less they charge the network to air the show. The less Fox pays to show the series, the less ad revenue they need to recoup costs, and the lower the ratings can go before they stop breaking even. So iTunes purchases don't count in ratings, but in a roundabout way, they could help, so I'd do it!

[foursweatervests]

Fantastic. Fringe is too good to go away. I'm kicking myself for taking so long to get on board, but it's part of my routine now. And I don't want to go without!

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

Great thoughts! One of my favorite geeky things to do is watch an old episode of a show followed by a new episode, and marvel over how the universe has grown and changed, and the characters as well. It's been awhile since I watched the pilot, but I remember the last time I did - oh, four or five months ago, beginning of summer or thereabouts - thinking how amazing Olivia's journey has been. There's been a lot of reviews and essays calling Fringe "The X-Files Lite," but I think in this respect, Fringe is the far superior show. As much as I loved Mulder and Scully, in a lot of ways, they were essentially static characters, though Scully did loosen up toward the end. But Olivia? It's incredible, her story over just three seasons.

I have a friend who watched the pilot and HATED Anna Torv, hated her so much she refused to watch another episode. To this day I still can't figure out what bugged her so much, but I cannot convince her to give the show another shot.

that's deft on the same level as them finding the bus full of ambered people in 1x03 and then discovering amber comes from the other universe in season three.


I give a tremendous amount of credit to the new writing staff that came on at the beginning of S2, for going back into S1 and finding all these threads and being able to pull so many of them together into one cohesive mythology. They didn't manage everything - they just totally did drop John Scott, and it was kind of weird - but what they did manage was kind of incredible. Because you know the original writers had no intention of doing anything else with the amber.

[icepixie]

how amazing Olivia's journey has been

So very amazing, yes.

There's been a lot of reviews and essays calling Fringe "The X-Files Lite," but I think in this respect, Fringe is the far superior show. As much as I loved Mulder and Scully, in a lot of ways, they were essentially static characters, though Scully did loosen up toward the end.

I have many FEEEELINGS about the XF comparisons. Like, I see where they come from (especially in S1; the show definitely owes a lot to XF in S1), but after that, it grows so different, it's hard for me to even think of them as similar. The philosophies behind each show are pretty much polar opposites: XF is very conspiracy-oriented, everyone's out to get us, the little guy will never win, never-ending darkness, while Fringe is much more about lights in the darkness, working together to save the universes, hope and love in the face of despair.

Structurally, Fringe's mytharc blows XF's out of the water. It actually appears to have been planned from the beginning (or near the beginning), it makes sense, and it's all about how the characters' choices, both in the 1980s and now, have been and continue to drive events. XF, on the other hand, was mostly M&S reacting to the newest piece of information TPTB were trying to keep from them--which, granted, in so far as Carter obviously wanted to create an atmosphere of paranoia and to drag his audience along on M&S's journey of being persecuted, this works pretty well, even if it gets quite repetitive around S5 or so. The reaction-oriented arc, though, makes it more difficult to engage with the show, and since nothing M&S did seemed to change anything, it made it more difficult for them to grow. IMO, anyway.

I do think Scully had an interesting journey--I was always fond of her religious journey in particular, and how her faith worked with and against her skepticism--but it took her nine years to accomplish as much development as Olivia has had in three.

(On the other hand, XF did better standalones, on average. But I'd much prefer better mytharc, less good standalones.)

I have a friend who watched the pilot and HATED Anna Torv, hated her so much she refused to watch another episode.

That is so sad. :(

Because you know the original writers had no intention of doing anything else with the amber.

I do get the impression that the creators wanted it to be more procedural than it ultimately became. Thank god they left, because if it was all like the first half of S1, I would never have stuck with it.

At the time, I didn't actually think dropping John Scott was weird. I think I remembered him sometime in S2, went "huh," and then promptly forgot him again, to the point where when Olivia was referring to having lost her partner three years ago in "Neither Here Nor There," I thought she was talking about Charlie and had to be reminded of Scott's existence by rowdycamels. So it wouldn't really bother me if his storyline stayed dropped. ;)

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

I really think the only basis for any real XF/Fringe comparisons is that they are both SF procedurals. That they both aired on FOX adds to it a bit, but honestly, aside from "people investigating strange things," Supernatural is as much a show that owes a debt to XF as Fringe is. Hell, in some respects, even something like Angel, too.

Scully did have a great character arc, but it was inconsistent in how it was portrayed. I mean, as much as I love the MOTWs, they often used the stock M&S characters, you know? A lot of the straightforward MOTWs, the Mulder and Scully investigating them in S2 weren't hugely different from the Mulder and Scully investigating them in S7, at least on a basic character level. In more personal episodes or in mytharc episodes, absolutely Scully was demonstrably a different character. But a lot of later eps, pre-Doggett (where everything went topsy-turvy and I'd rather just not talk about it), many many Act Ones still relied on Mulder going "it might be this crazy thing!" and Scully going "but science!"

Totally agree with you on the differences between XF and Fringe's mytharcs. Part of it is just the difference in when the shows aired. I remember the early 90s as being really super into conspiracies and all that, so a show where the protagonists were in the dark railing against unseen yet hugely powerful forces really tapped into that. But I think some of it is just that TV is far more serialized these days. I mean, XF mytharcs were usually only the season premieres and finales, and a two-parter during February sweeps. They weren't a long consistent storyline the way Fringe does. I definitely have way more respect for what Fringe is able to pull off, and especially the way the writers drop little mytharc tidbits into other seemingly MOTW episodes.

Wow, talky meat.

[icepixie]

I really think the only basis for any real XF/Fringe comparisons is that they are both SF procedurals.

Pretty much. The FBI angle probably adds, too.

I mean, as much as I love the MOTWs, they often used the stock M&S characters, you know?

Yeah, I can see that. Like you said earlier, Scully is less uptight in later seasons, but...yeah, they were kind of locked into skeptic/believer roles for the entire show as far as the MOTW episodes went.

Part of it is just the difference in when the shows aired.

Definitely. XF is very Gen X, and Fringe is way more Gen Y (in so far as the two generations are popularly characterized as individualistic vs. team-oriented).

To be honest, considering how lame the XF mytharc ending up being, I'm kinda glad serialized TV wasn't in vogue when it was airing. Then we would've had to suffer through more of it...

I definitely have way more respect for what Fringe is able to pull off, and especially the way the writers drop little mytharc tidbits into other seemingly MOTW episodes.

Me too. I'm not sure they've ever just done a straight MOTW. Maybe way back in S1 or something.

Wow, talky meat.

I meant to say, yes, definitely. I've been craving meta for all my shows lately, but especially Fringe. Maybe it's just because the B5 rewatch is over, but I feel like show-specific meta on LJ has all but disappeared, at least on my flist. So thank you! :)

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

Re: XF mytharcs: *is in awe of the smartness of your thinky thoughts*

YES! You've put into words exactly what always subconsciously bothered me about all that mytharc crap! The simultaneous terror and monotony of paranoia was very well done, but awful for long-term growth and development. And for, you know, not wanting to turn off the tv and go chug bleach. And then Doggett and Reyes happened, and nothing was ever canon again. If only they'd done more episodes involving Mulder getting drugged and chasing after trailer-park vampires... those were the days.

[icepixie]

Thinky thoughts, yay!

The simultaneous terror and monotony of paranoia was very well done, but awful for long-term growth and development.

Yeah, there is kind of...only one place you can be with that. You can't go anywhere else.

And for, you know, not wanting to turn off the tv and go chug bleach.

This too. Eventually I was like, "...I'll come back when you get the proof you've been looking for."

And then Doggett and Reyes happened, and nothing was ever canon again.

Reyes was actually kind of a redeeming feature for me. I skipped S8 (Scully pregnant = no), but I came back for S9 because I thought she was kinda fun. I wish they had just ended XF in S7, and done a Doggett- and Reyes-centered spinoff that was just about them investigating MOTWs. I would've watched that.

If only they'd done more episodes involving Mulder getting drugged and chasing after trailer-park vampires... those were the days.

If only...sigh...

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there is kind of...only one place you can be with that. You can't go anywhere else.

Especially not for nine years.

This too. Eventually I was like, "...I'll come back when you get the proof you've been looking for."

Really the only bright spots were M&S's partnership and their allies, and the sense of "Yes, we handful of individuals will fight the good fight in whatever tiny and doomed ways we can," but... in retrospect it wasn't a cheery show.

I rejected Reyes on the grounds that she was not Scully, and never really gave her a chance. I came back in bits and pieces, whenever it looked like there would be a bit of Scully or Mulder guest-starring. It was always disappointing, though.

I wish they had just ended XF in S7, and done a Doggett- and Reyes-centered spinoff that was just about them investigating MOTWs.

That would've been a better decision in many, many ways. It was basically what they did do, but if they had made the separation cleaner and clearer, everybody would've benefited.

If only...sigh..

"Shooting out tires on a moving vehicle is actually a lot harder than it looks!"

[icepixie]

Really the only bright spots were M&S's partnership and their allies, and the sense of "Yes, we handful of individuals will fight the good fight in whatever tiny and doomed ways we can," but... in retrospect it wasn't a cheery show.

It's not even the fact that it wasn't a cheery show that bothered me, it was that it stayed the same brand of not-cheery for nine years. One little success now and again would not have hurt them!

I rejected Reyes on the grounds that she was not Scully, and never really gave her a chance.

Awww. She was just starting to get interesting when the show ended, I thought. Kind of like Mulder, but not so damn angsty. And her and Doggett had an intriguing relationship; complicated by her being the investigator when his son was kidnapped, but still less tense than M&S.

It was basically what they did do, but if they had made the separation cleaner and clearer, everybody would've benefited.

Yes. As good as it is to have a Scully around, she really didn't need to be around for those seasons.

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

One little success now and again would not have hurt them!

I feel like they did have little successes now and then, but they got all washed away in the sea of hopeless persecution. :/

And her and Doggett

I reeeeaally resented Doggett for being not!Mulder, to the point where I couldn't even pay attention to what he was saying. Bleh. Also, he conveniently carried over Mulder's missing-relative blahblahblah, and... eh.

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

I rewatched the pilot before giving it to my dad, and yeah, wow. It's like a totally different show!

"eh, another badass genre woman who has trouble expressing her emotions; I'll probably end up liking her, especially after that one thing she did, but couldn't they do something else? Also, that actress isn't bad, but I wish she'd be a little less flat. It must be the stress of hiding her obvious non-American accent."

THIS. EXACTLY THIS. WHAT FOOLS WE WERE.

"God damn you, writers, you GIVE THAT BACK TO HER RIGHT NOW!"

GIVE OUR EMOTIONALLY COMPLEXIFIED OLIVIA BACK TO US RIGHT NOW! Seriously, this is the one big problem I'm having with the Amberverse: they've gotta resolve this without killing off every consequence of three years of character development or IT WILL BE AWFUL.

And Charlie! Poor, redundant Charlie. I've kinda grown to love Scarlie even more, but Charlie and Olivia had such a great relationship.

Did we ever find out what John Scott and his cronies were up to?

NSA triple-agents? I... don't really care if that stays unresolved forever. Tv series' lives are short. We have better things to be watching.

...That was totally obvious to everyone but me, wasn't it?

Uhhhhhh Amber!livia kinda came right out and said as much to Nerd!Lincoln, in her exposition quick debrief to him at the beginning of the season. You can haz selective hearing? ;P But yeah, if they can tie the flight victims into the Red!verse/shapeshifters, that'd be pretty awesome. Even if it meant dredging up John Scott again.

let me hook you on this one! You won't regret it. :D

The crack!fairy strikes again! Have I mentioned thank you? THANK YOU!

[icepixie]

THIS. EXACTLY THIS. WHAT FOOLS WE WERE.

SILLY US!

GIVE OUR EMOTIONALLY COMPLEXIFIED OLIVIA BACK TO US RIGHT NOW! Seriously, this is the one big problem I'm having with the Amberverse: they've gotta resolve this without killing off every consequence of three years of character development or IT WILL BE AWFUL.

I have faith that they won't do that! No way is she going to remain without her memories of the real timeline beyond the midpoint of the season!

And Charlie! Poor, redundant Charlie. I've kinda grown to love Scarlie even more, but Charlie and Olivia had such a great relationship.

I definitely enjoy Scarlie, but Charlie's friendship with Olivia was so nice. Easy, close, supportive...it just made me happy that it existed. But ultimately it was keeping the more important relationships from falling into place, I think.

I... don't really care if that stays unresolved forever. Tv series' lives are short. We have better things to be watching.

This. We can all just forget about it...

You can haz selective hearing?

APPARENTLY SO.

(In my defense, I spent most of that episode going, "BUT YOUR UNIVERSES ARE SLOWLY APOCALYPSING, WHY ARE YOU WASTING TIME WITH THIS CASE OF THE WEEK??!" and "NOOOOOOO, Walter is broken and crazy and Olivia is so sad and closed-off and okay, Astrid got a pretty good deal here, I HATE THIS PETERLESS UNIVERSE!!!" So I didn't have much left over for things like exposition. :D)

But yeah, if they can tie the flight victims into the Red!verse/shapeshifters, that'd be pretty awesome.

I feel like surely they're going to. They wouldn't have so obviously connected it to the pilot if they didn't.

The crack!fairy strikes again!

Wheee! Hey, does Sarah need to watch this? When she gets a moment to breathe, anyway?

Have I mentioned thank you? THANK YOU!

Awwww, yay! I knew you'd love it once you finally ditched your vampires and gave it a chance! :)

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

I have faith that they won't do that!

Isn't it nice to have a show where you can have faith [mostly plz plz cross fingers!] that the writers will do good things?

.it just made me happy that it existed. But ultimately it was keeping the more important relationships from falling into place, I think.

Yes, on both counts. It was too cute to live!

"BUT YOUR UNIVERSES ARE SLOWLY APOCALYPSING, WHY ARE YOU WASTING TIME WITH THIS CASE OF THE WEEK??!"

THIS WAS A RELEVANT QUESTION!!

Wheee! Hey, does Sarah need to watch this? When she gets a moment to breathe, anyway?

SHE DOES! Haha, I keep nudging her about it, and she's all "eh" and "no tiem!" We should gang up on her!

I knew you'd love it once you finally ditched your vampires and gave it a chance! :)

You are made of good calls! And I didn't ditch them, I just caught up. *cough*

[icepixie]

Isn't it nice to have a show where you can have faith [mostly plz plz cross fingers!] that the writers will do good things?

Unlike the constant dashing of my hopes on basically every other show I watch!

SHE DOES! Haha, I keep nudging her about it, and she's all "eh" and "no tiem!" We should gang up on her!

We should! (Although would it be cruel to get her into it when she doesn't have time to marathon?)

And I didn't ditch them, I just caught up. *cough*

Perhaps Fringe Division should investigate vampires some day? (More vampires, I mean. I think they did that a couple years ago.)

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

Unlike the constant dashing of my hopes on basically every other show I watch!

Never watch Glee! It's a constant crushing of spirits!

(Although would it be cruel to get her into it when she doesn't have time to marathon?)

We wait for a long vacation and then we POUNCE!

Perhaps Fringe Division should investigate vampires some day?

Trailer park vampires? With plastic fangs and OCD?

[icepixie]

Never watch Glee! It's a constant crushing of spirits!

I can't imagine ever wanting to watch Glee in the first place!

We wait for a long vacation and then we POUNCE!

I feel like you should be hiding in a dark alley and wearing dark, villainous clothing when you say that...

Trailer park vampires? With plastic fangs and OCD?

Perhaps they sparkle!

[rowdycamels.livejournal.com]

I can't imagine ever wanting to watch Glee in the first place!

Your brain thanks you!

I feel like you should be hiding in a dark alley and wearing dark, villainous clothing when you say that...

With a handlebar mustache to twirl!

Perhaps they sparkle!

Now that is an episode that needs a high body count.

[kurayaminokoe.livejournal.com]

I just hope they're not replacing Peter with What's His Name we first met in the Amberverse. He's a bit of a dork... or he looks like one.

But seriously, I was happy I had only 20 days inbetween finishing Season 3 and the start of season 4.

[icepixie]

No, the producers have been very firm about Peter being on the show for the whole season. (Previews actually suggest he's coming back tonight!) Lincoln, I guess, is going to be the new Charlie. Which I don't love, but maybe he'll scram after this season.